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    <title>Museum Archipelago - Episodes Tagged with “Tasmania”</title>
    <link>https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania</link>
    <pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:00:00 -0400</pubDate>
    <description>A tiny show guiding you through the rocky landscape of museums. Museum Archipelago believes that no museum is an island and that museums are not neutral.  
Taking a broad definition of museums, host Ian Elsner brings you to different museum spaces around the world, dives deep into institutional problems, and introduces you to the people working to fix them. Each episode is rarely longer than 15 minutes, so let’s get started.
</description>
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    <itunes:subtitle>A tiny show guiding you through the rocky landscape of museums</itunes:subtitle>
    <itunes:author>Ian Elsner</itunes:author>
    <itunes:summary>A tiny show guiding you through the rocky landscape of museums. Museum Archipelago believes that no museum is an island and that museums are not neutral.  
Taking a broad definition of museums, host Ian Elsner brings you to different museum spaces around the world, dives deep into institutional problems, and introduces you to the people working to fix them. Each episode is rarely longer than 15 minutes, so let’s get started.
</itunes:summary>
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    <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
    <itunes:keywords>best museum podcast, museum podcast, museums, archipelago, sidedoor, Smithsonian, buzludzha, culture museums</itunes:keywords>
    <itunes:owner>
      <itunes:name>Ian Elsner</itunes:name>
      <itunes:email>ian.elsner@gmail.com</itunes:email>
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<item>
  <title>63. Sex and Death Are on Display at The Museum of Old and New Art</title>
  <link>https://www.museumarchipelago.com/63</link>
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  <pubDate>Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:00:00 -0400</pubDate>
  <author>Ian Elsner</author>
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  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Ian Elsner</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>The Museum of Old and New Art opened in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia in 2011. With a name like that, MONA could include any type of art. But looking at the collection, it’s clear that its creator, millionaire gambler David Walsh, has a fascination with sex and death -- and bets that the rest of us do too. 

Walsh himself calls MONA a “subversive adult Disneyland.” The building’s architecture is designed to make you feel lost, and the art is displayed without any labels whatsoever. It’s just you and the art.

In this episode, Hobart-based musician Bianca Blackhall talks about how she’s watched MONA reshape the creative community and art landscape of the island, what makes the museum different from other art museums, and how Hobart is now in “Sauron's Eye of tourism.”</itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>9:57</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/e/ec795200-a9bd-4922-b8c9-550824e1648e/episodes/6/60555597-2602-48cc-a42c-8e0d5edbf1b6/cover.jpg?v=2"/>
  <description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Old_and_New_Art" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;The Museum of Old and New Art&lt;/a&gt; opened in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia in 2011. With a name like that, &lt;a href="https://mona.net.au/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;MONA&lt;/a&gt; could include any type of art. But looking at the collection, it’s clear that its creator, millionaire gambler &lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Walsh_(art_collector)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;David Walsh&lt;/a&gt;, has a fascination with sex and death -- and bets that the rest of us do too. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Walsh himself calls MONA a “subversive adult Disneyland.” The building’s architecture is designed to make you feel lost, and the art is displayed without any labels whatsoever. It’s just you and the art.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In this episode, Hobart-based musician &lt;a href="https://www.facebook.com/biancablackhallmusic/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Bianca Blackhall&lt;/a&gt; talks about how she’s watched MONA reshape the creative community and art landscape of the island, what makes the museum different from other art museums, and how Hobart is now in “Sauron's Eye of tourism.”&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;This month on Museum Archipelago, &lt;a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;we’re taking you to Tasmania&lt;/a&gt;. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums. Subscribe to the podcast via &lt;a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/museum-archipelago/id1182755184" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Apple Podcasts&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href="https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubXVzZXVtYXJjaGlwZWxhZ28uY29tL3Jzcw==" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Google Podcasts&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href="https://overcast.fm/itunes1182755184/museum-archipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Overcast&lt;/a&gt;, or &lt;a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ImpDQJqEypxGNslnImXZE" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Spotify&lt;/a&gt; to never miss an episode.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;div&gt;
&lt;h3&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Club Archipelago 🏖️&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you like episodes like this one, you’ll love Club Archipelago. &lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Join Club Archipelago today&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt; to help me continue making podcasts about museums (and get some fun benefits)! &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;p&gt;

&lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3&gt;Topics Discussed&lt;/h3&gt;

&lt;p&gt;00:00: Intro&lt;br&gt;
00:15: &lt;a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;This Month, Museum Archipelago is Taking You To Tasmania&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
00:47: &lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Old_and_New_Art" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Museum of Old and New Art (MONA)&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
01:05: &lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/club-archipelago-26168741" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Museum Archipelago on ABC Radio Hobart&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
01:30: The Way MONA Shapes the Island&lt;br&gt;
01:44: MONA’s Architecture is Designed to Make You Feel Lost&lt;br&gt;
02:42: &lt;a href="https://www.facebook.com/biancablackhallmusic/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Bianca Blackhall&lt;/a&gt; &lt;br&gt;
03:05:&lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Walsh_(art_collector)" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt; David Walsh&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
03:50: “A Subversive Adult Disneyland”&lt;br&gt;
04:08: &lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Virgin_Mary" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;em&gt;The Holy Virgin Mary&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
04:13: &lt;a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/varrqnuht/5430785294" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;em&gt;On the road to heaven the highway to hell&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
04:29: &lt;a href="https://mona.net.au/stuff-to-do/monanism/cloaca-professional-2010" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;em&gt;Cloaca Professional, 2010&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
04:55: MONA’s Lack of Labels&lt;br&gt;
05:33: “Art Wank”&lt;br&gt;
06:20: Pride in MONA&lt;br&gt;
06:50: “Sauron's Eye of Tourism”&lt;br&gt;
08:20: A Monument to Joyful Secularism&lt;br&gt;
08:43: &lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Join Club Archipelago&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;h3&gt;More&lt;/h3&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OSTB7LK/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&amp;amp;btkr=1&amp;amp;linkCode=sl1&amp;amp;tag=museumsgo-20&amp;amp;linkId=ca93cf885b298b1d7975c064e856f1ec&amp;amp;language=en_US" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;➡️ The Making of MONA by Adrian Franklin&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;div&gt;
&lt;h3&gt;Transcript&lt;/h3&gt;
Below is a transcript of Museum Archipelago episode 63. Museum Archipelago is produced for the ear and the only the audio of the episode is canonical. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, refer to the links above.

&lt;div class="wrap-collabsible"&gt;
  
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        &lt;p&gt;Museums on the Australian island of Tasmania are a microcosm of museums all around the world. They struggle with properly interpreting their colonial past, the exclusion of First People from telling their stories in major museums, and having a large, privately owned art museum reshape a small town.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Today we visit the Museum of Old and New Art in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia. It’s known as MONA, and it is by far the largest museum in Tasmania… not only by square footage (it’s the largest privately owned art museum in the southern hemisphere), but also by its influence.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Helen Shield: If you were hosting an international podcast about museums, where would you spend your precious travel dollars to record? &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;That’s Helen Shield, host of a terrestrial broadcast radio program in Tasmania. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Helen Shield: There’s one obvious answer, isn’t there?&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;She’s a Hobart local and she interviewed me about this series. Listen to how she describes the way that MONA shapes the island.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Helen Shield: It wouldn’t be a trip to Tasmania without stopping in a museum that has singlehandledled changed tourism and probably the international reputation of this island, stopping in at MONA.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;MONA, often called the museum of sex and death, opened in Berriedale, a suburb of Hobart in 2011. The building, an enormous bunker out on a peninsula overlooking a river, sneaks up on you as you approach. Once you’re inside -- though a rather small entrance that whisks you underground, the architecture is designed to make you feel lost. There are no signs or directions, so you have to choose your own route. The maze-like paths split in two, with no indication which way you should take, other than which one might seem more attractive to you. Tunnels and stairs -- which don’t always move you up or down by one story -- are not an escape from the disorienting experience -- instead, they might lead you to a tight closterphoic chamber, a lovely cafe overlooking the water, or another massive, previously undiscovered subterranean open space. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Bianca Blackhall: I don't think people expected it to have such an impact. It's kind of like a layer. It's very villainous. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This is Bianca Blackhall, a Hobart-based musician who has watched MONA reshape the creative community and art landscape of the island. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Bianca Blackhall: Hello, my name is Bianca Blackhall. I live in Tasmania. I'm 27 and I'm a musician among other things.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The museum is the product of Tasmanian millionaire and art collector David Walsh. Walsh made his fortune by gambling, and Blackhall says that he is a much-talked about figure in Hobart.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Bianca Blackhall: He'd be an interesting guest at the dinner table cause he's quite unusual in his manner and that he'd made his money through gambling and he was good with numbers. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In his introductions to one of MONA’s past exhibits, Walsh recalled of spending a lot of time in Hobart’s museums as a teenager.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Bianca Blackhall: And apparently he used to get dropped off by his parents in town at the museums. And he used to just walk around them all day as a kid and then they'd pick him up again at the night. They’d be like, “come home”. Cause maybe he was, you know, annoying them or whatever at home as a kid.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;With a name like the Museum of Old And New Art, MONA could pretty much include any type of art. But looking at the collection, it’s clear that David Walsh has a fascination with sex and death -- and bets that the rest of us do too. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And, turns out, he’s right. Social animals like us, love thinking about fucking and dying -- and excretion and rot. Walsh himself calls MONA a “subversive adult Disneyland.”&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There’s The Holy Virgin Mary, a painting created in part with elephant dung. There’s On the road to heaven the highway to hell, in which the remains of a suicide bomber are cast in dark chocolate. There are dead horses and rotting, festering wounds with swarming bugs encased in acrylic. There’s audioanamatornic skeletons fucking. There’s a digestive machine at turns food into feces and stinks up an entire gallery. The art tries to punch you in the gut, and it mostly succeeds in part because there aren’t any descriptive plaques telling you what’s important about the art or how to feel about it. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Ian Elsner (on ABC RADIO HOBART): I have to say, I’ve never seen anything like it.&lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;Helen Shield: And this from someone who works in, and spends his free time exploring museums. &lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;Ian Elsner (on ABC RADIO HOBART): So often we are in the museum world very stressed out by the labeling. We spend hours and hours thinking about what the labels and placards look like next to a piece of art, and so it was it was really refreshing to just go into the museum and see no labels at all. &lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;Bianca Blackhall: The wording in normal museums is more clinical, like these two people are it's a copulating and they’re enjoying it. They’re always removing feeling from the equation like, oh, objectively this is this, but moving on.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Your only guide to the museum is its inhouse app, called the O. The O will provide some interpretation of the art, but the interpretation is hidden away in a little tab called ARTWANK, which has the icon of a penis. It’s delightful to see art off the pedestal, but Blackhall says that the levity and approach might also be easier for the artists. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Bianca Blackhall: I think it's a very uncomfortable thing to be asked to explain. Please explain. You know, that's Pauline Hanson says, and it's like more, how do I say this stuff without being a twit? It's almost like they've made the unconventional the every day, you know, and sometimes, you know, you wander around there and then there'll be people in smocks getting about and you're like, why are they, well, you know, these are these arts smocks. I'm not sure you know what's happening, but it's, so it's like now it's a part of your every day.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Do you think for Tasmanians there's a certain amount of pride that it's here?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Bianca Blackhall: Definitely, yeah. People have welcomed it with open arms almost. The way people talk about it, they say things like, “MONA, Yup, Yup. Very good.” You know, like in a kind of very, you know, gruff way but like, “oh yeah. Very good. Yup. Going to go down to the big bonfire. With the kids. And it’s good.”&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;MONA has also been well-received by art critics and by tourists visiting from outside Tasmania. As a new destination on the global art tourism circuit, there’s no doubt that the museums has changed Hobart, a city of a quarter million people. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Bianca Blackhall: I feel like it partially began with MONA, this Sauron's Eye of tourism. I feel like we’re in the eye. It’s watching us. The world is going, “that little island there”. And it really in in the last year or two, you can feel the new foot traffic. You can really feel it. It’s a little bit…  I don't know if we're actually quite got the infrastructure for the amount that we have tourists that we now have. Luckily, MONA I think took responsibility for itself but yeah you can definitely feel… we have cruise ships now coming in and that, I don't know if they even go to minor, but we've had the cruise ships coming in and out. Sometimes there are cruise ship traffic jams where they have to wait out in the bay for the other one to leave before they come in. And yeah, it's changed rapidly in a very short space of time. It's quite shocking. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
        
        &lt;/div&gt;
            &lt;/div&gt;
                &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
</description>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Old_and_New_Art" rel="nofollow">The Museum of Old and New Art</a> opened in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia in 2011. With a name like that, <a href="https://mona.net.au/" rel="nofollow">MONA</a> could include any type of art. But looking at the collection, it’s clear that its creator, millionaire gambler <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Walsh_(art_collector)" rel="nofollow">David Walsh</a>, has a fascination with sex and death -- and bets that the rest of us do too. </p>

<p>Walsh himself calls MONA a “subversive adult Disneyland.” The building’s architecture is designed to make you feel lost, and the art is displayed without any labels whatsoever. It’s just you and the art.</p>

<p>In this episode, Hobart-based musician <a href="https://www.facebook.com/biancablackhallmusic/" rel="nofollow">Bianca Blackhall</a> talks about how she’s watched MONA reshape the creative community and art landscape of the island, what makes the museum different from other art museums, and how Hobart is now in “Sauron&#39;s Eye of tourism.”</p>

<p><em>This month on Museum Archipelago, <a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania" rel="nofollow">we’re taking you to Tasmania</a>. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums. Subscribe to the podcast via <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/museum-archipelago/id1182755184" rel="nofollow">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubXVzZXVtYXJjaGlwZWxhZ28uY29tL3Jzcw==" rel="nofollow">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://overcast.fm/itunes1182755184/museum-archipelago" rel="nofollow">Overcast</a>, or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ImpDQJqEypxGNslnImXZE" rel="nofollow">Spotify</a> to never miss an episode.</em></p>

<div id="club">
<h3><a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Club Archipelago 🏖️</a></h3>
<p>If you like episodes like this one, you’ll love Club Archipelago. <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago"><b>Join Club Archipelago today</b></a> to help me continue making podcasts about museums (and get some fun benefits)! </div>

<p>

<h3>Topics Discussed</h3>

<p>00:00: Intro<br>
00:15: <a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania">This Month, Museum Archipelago is Taking You To Tasmania</a><br>
00:47: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Old_and_New_Art">Museum of Old and New Art (MONA)</a><br>
01:05: <a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/club-archipelago-26168741">Museum Archipelago on ABC Radio Hobart</a><br>
01:30: The Way MONA Shapes the Island<br>
01:44: MONA’s Architecture is Designed to Make You Feel Lost<br>
02:42: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/biancablackhallmusic/">Bianca Blackhall</a> <br>
03:05:<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Walsh_(art_collector)"> David Walsh</a><br>
03:50: “A Subversive Adult Disneyland”<br>
04:08: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Virgin_Mary"><em>The Holy Virgin Mary</em></a><br>
04:13: <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/varrqnuht/5430785294"><em>On the road to heaven the highway to hell</em></a><br>
04:29: <a href="https://mona.net.au/stuff-to-do/monanism/cloaca-professional-2010"><em>Cloaca Professional, 2010</em></a><br>
04:55: MONA’s Lack of Labels<br>
05:33: “Art Wank”<br>
06:20: Pride in MONA<br>
06:50: “Sauron's Eye of Tourism”<br>
08:20: A Monument to Joyful Secularism<br>
08:43: <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Join Club Archipelago</a></p>

<h3>More</h3>

<p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OSTB7LK/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&linkCode=sl1&tag=museumsgo-20&linkId=ca93cf885b298b1d7975c064e856f1ec&language=en_US">➡️ The Making of MONA by Adrian Franklin</a></p>

<div id="script">
<h3>Transcript</h3>
Below is a transcript of Museum Archipelago episode 63. Museum Archipelago is produced for the ear and the only the audio of the episode is canonical. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, refer to the links above.</p>

<div class="wrap-collabsible">
  <input id="collapsible" class="toggle" type="checkbox">
  <label for="collapsible" class="lbl-toggle">View Transcript</label>
  <div class="collapsible-content">
    <div class="content-inner">
        <div>
        
        <p>Museums on the Australian island of Tasmania are a microcosm of museums all around the world. They struggle with properly interpreting their colonial past, the exclusion of First People from telling their stories in major museums, and having a large, privately owned art museum reshape a small town.</p>

<p>This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums.</p>

<p>Today we visit the Museum of Old and New Art in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia. It’s known as MONA, and it is by far the largest museum in Tasmania… not only by square footage (it’s the largest privately owned art museum in the southern hemisphere), but also by its influence.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Helen Shield: If you were hosting an international podcast about museums, where would you spend your precious travel dollars to record? </p>
</blockquote>

<p>That’s Helen Shield, host of a terrestrial broadcast radio program in Tasmania. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Helen Shield: There’s one obvious answer, isn’t there?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>She’s a Hobart local and she interviewed me about this series. Listen to how she describes the way that MONA shapes the island.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Helen Shield: It wouldn’t be a trip to Tasmania without stopping in a museum that has singlehandledled changed tourism and probably the international reputation of this island, stopping in at MONA.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>MONA, often called the museum of sex and death, opened in Berriedale, a suburb of Hobart in 2011. The building, an enormous bunker out on a peninsula overlooking a river, sneaks up on you as you approach. Once you’re inside -- though a rather small entrance that whisks you underground, the architecture is designed to make you feel lost. There are no signs or directions, so you have to choose your own route. The maze-like paths split in two, with no indication which way you should take, other than which one might seem more attractive to you. Tunnels and stairs -- which don’t always move you up or down by one story -- are not an escape from the disorienting experience -- instead, they might lead you to a tight closterphoic chamber, a lovely cafe overlooking the water, or another massive, previously undiscovered subterranean open space. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: I don't think people expected it to have such an impact. It's kind of like a layer. It's very villainous. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>This is Bianca Blackhall, a Hobart-based musician who has watched MONA reshape the creative community and art landscape of the island. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: Hello, my name is Bianca Blackhall. I live in Tasmania. I'm 27 and I'm a musician among other things.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The museum is the product of Tasmanian millionaire and art collector David Walsh. Walsh made his fortune by gambling, and Blackhall says that he is a much-talked about figure in Hobart.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: He'd be an interesting guest at the dinner table cause he's quite unusual in his manner and that he'd made his money through gambling and he was good with numbers. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>In his introductions to one of MONA’s past exhibits, Walsh recalled of spending a lot of time in Hobart’s museums as a teenager.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: And apparently he used to get dropped off by his parents in town at the museums. And he used to just walk around them all day as a kid and then they'd pick him up again at the night. They’d be like, “come home”. Cause maybe he was, you know, annoying them or whatever at home as a kid.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>With a name like the Museum of Old And New Art, MONA could pretty much include any type of art. But looking at the collection, it’s clear that David Walsh has a fascination with sex and death -- and bets that the rest of us do too. </p>

<p>And, turns out, he’s right. Social animals like us, love thinking about fucking and dying -- and excretion and rot. Walsh himself calls MONA a “subversive adult Disneyland.”</p>

<p>There’s The Holy Virgin Mary, a painting created in part with elephant dung. There’s On the road to heaven the highway to hell, in which the remains of a suicide bomber are cast in dark chocolate. There are dead horses and rotting, festering wounds with swarming bugs encased in acrylic. There’s audioanamatornic skeletons fucking. There’s a digestive machine at turns food into feces and stinks up an entire gallery. The art tries to punch you in the gut, and it mostly succeeds in part because there aren’t any descriptive plaques telling you what’s important about the art or how to feel about it. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Ian Elsner (on ABC RADIO HOBART): I have to say, I’ve never seen anything like it.</p>
  
  <p>Helen Shield: And this from someone who works in, and spends his free time exploring museums. </p>
  
  <p>Ian Elsner (on ABC RADIO HOBART): So often we are in the museum world very stressed out by the labeling. We spend hours and hours thinking about what the labels and placards look like next to a piece of art, and so it was it was really refreshing to just go into the museum and see no labels at all. </p>
  
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: The wording in normal museums is more clinical, like these two people are it's a copulating and they’re enjoying it. They’re always removing feeling from the equation like, oh, objectively this is this, but moving on.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Your only guide to the museum is its inhouse app, called the O. The O will provide some interpretation of the art, but the interpretation is hidden away in a little tab called ARTWANK, which has the icon of a penis. It’s delightful to see art off the pedestal, but Blackhall says that the levity and approach might also be easier for the artists. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: I think it's a very uncomfortable thing to be asked to explain. Please explain. You know, that's Pauline Hanson says, and it's like more, how do I say this stuff without being a twit? It's almost like they've made the unconventional the every day, you know, and sometimes, you know, you wander around there and then there'll be people in smocks getting about and you're like, why are they, well, you know, these are these arts smocks. I'm not sure you know what's happening, but it's, so it's like now it's a part of your every day.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Do you think for Tasmanians there's a certain amount of pride that it's here?</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: Definitely, yeah. People have welcomed it with open arms almost. The way people talk about it, they say things like, “MONA, Yup, Yup. Very good.” You know, like in a kind of very, you know, gruff way but like, “oh yeah. Very good. Yup. Going to go down to the big bonfire. With the kids. And it’s good.”</p>
</blockquote>

<p>MONA has also been well-received by art critics and by tourists visiting from outside Tasmania. As a new destination on the global art tourism circuit, there’s no doubt that the museums has changed Hobart, a city of a quarter million people. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: I feel like it partially began with MONA, this Sauron's Eye of tourism. I feel like we’re in the eye. It’s watching us. The world is going, “that little island there”. And it really in in the last year or two, you can feel the new foot traffic. You can really feel it. It’s a little bit…  I don't know if we're actually quite got the infrastructure for the amount that we have tourists that we now have. Luckily, MONA I think took responsibility for itself but yeah you can definitely feel… we have cruise ships now coming in and that, I don't know if they even go to minor, but we've had the cruise ships coming in and out. Sometimes there are cruise ship traffic jams where they have to wait out in the bay for the other one to leave before they come in. And yeah, it's changed rapidly in a very short space of time. It's quite shocking. </p>
</blockquote>
        
        </div>

<pre><code>        &lt;/div&gt;
            &lt;/div&gt;
</code></pre><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Support Museum Archipelago</a></p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Old_and_New_Art" rel="nofollow">The Museum of Old and New Art</a> opened in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia in 2011. With a name like that, <a href="https://mona.net.au/" rel="nofollow">MONA</a> could include any type of art. But looking at the collection, it’s clear that its creator, millionaire gambler <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Walsh_(art_collector)" rel="nofollow">David Walsh</a>, has a fascination with sex and death -- and bets that the rest of us do too. </p>

<p>Walsh himself calls MONA a “subversive adult Disneyland.” The building’s architecture is designed to make you feel lost, and the art is displayed without any labels whatsoever. It’s just you and the art.</p>

<p>In this episode, Hobart-based musician <a href="https://www.facebook.com/biancablackhallmusic/" rel="nofollow">Bianca Blackhall</a> talks about how she’s watched MONA reshape the creative community and art landscape of the island, what makes the museum different from other art museums, and how Hobart is now in “Sauron&#39;s Eye of tourism.”</p>

<p><em>This month on Museum Archipelago, <a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania" rel="nofollow">we’re taking you to Tasmania</a>. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums. Subscribe to the podcast via <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/museum-archipelago/id1182755184" rel="nofollow">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubXVzZXVtYXJjaGlwZWxhZ28uY29tL3Jzcw==" rel="nofollow">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://overcast.fm/itunes1182755184/museum-archipelago" rel="nofollow">Overcast</a>, or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ImpDQJqEypxGNslnImXZE" rel="nofollow">Spotify</a> to never miss an episode.</em></p>

<div id="club">
<h3><a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Club Archipelago 🏖️</a></h3>
<p>If you like episodes like this one, you’ll love Club Archipelago. <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago"><b>Join Club Archipelago today</b></a> to help me continue making podcasts about museums (and get some fun benefits)! </div>

<p>

<h3>Topics Discussed</h3>

<p>00:00: Intro<br>
00:15: <a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania">This Month, Museum Archipelago is Taking You To Tasmania</a><br>
00:47: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Museum_of_Old_and_New_Art">Museum of Old and New Art (MONA)</a><br>
01:05: <a href="https://www.patreon.com/posts/club-archipelago-26168741">Museum Archipelago on ABC Radio Hobart</a><br>
01:30: The Way MONA Shapes the Island<br>
01:44: MONA’s Architecture is Designed to Make You Feel Lost<br>
02:42: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/biancablackhallmusic/">Bianca Blackhall</a> <br>
03:05:<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Walsh_(art_collector)"> David Walsh</a><br>
03:50: “A Subversive Adult Disneyland”<br>
04:08: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holy_Virgin_Mary"><em>The Holy Virgin Mary</em></a><br>
04:13: <a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/varrqnuht/5430785294"><em>On the road to heaven the highway to hell</em></a><br>
04:29: <a href="https://mona.net.au/stuff-to-do/monanism/cloaca-professional-2010"><em>Cloaca Professional, 2010</em></a><br>
04:55: MONA’s Lack of Labels<br>
05:33: “Art Wank”<br>
06:20: Pride in MONA<br>
06:50: “Sauron's Eye of Tourism”<br>
08:20: A Monument to Joyful Secularism<br>
08:43: <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Join Club Archipelago</a></p>

<h3>More</h3>

<p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OSTB7LK/ref=as_li_ss_tl?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1&linkCode=sl1&tag=museumsgo-20&linkId=ca93cf885b298b1d7975c064e856f1ec&language=en_US">➡️ The Making of MONA by Adrian Franklin</a></p>

<div id="script">
<h3>Transcript</h3>
Below is a transcript of Museum Archipelago episode 63. Museum Archipelago is produced for the ear and the only the audio of the episode is canonical. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, refer to the links above.</p>

<div class="wrap-collabsible">
  <input id="collapsible" class="toggle" type="checkbox">
  <label for="collapsible" class="lbl-toggle">View Transcript</label>
  <div class="collapsible-content">
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        <div>
        
        <p>Museums on the Australian island of Tasmania are a microcosm of museums all around the world. They struggle with properly interpreting their colonial past, the exclusion of First People from telling their stories in major museums, and having a large, privately owned art museum reshape a small town.</p>

<p>This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums.</p>

<p>Today we visit the Museum of Old and New Art in Hobart, Tasmania, Australia. It’s known as MONA, and it is by far the largest museum in Tasmania… not only by square footage (it’s the largest privately owned art museum in the southern hemisphere), but also by its influence.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Helen Shield: If you were hosting an international podcast about museums, where would you spend your precious travel dollars to record? </p>
</blockquote>

<p>That’s Helen Shield, host of a terrestrial broadcast radio program in Tasmania. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Helen Shield: There’s one obvious answer, isn’t there?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>She’s a Hobart local and she interviewed me about this series. Listen to how she describes the way that MONA shapes the island.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Helen Shield: It wouldn’t be a trip to Tasmania without stopping in a museum that has singlehandledled changed tourism and probably the international reputation of this island, stopping in at MONA.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>MONA, often called the museum of sex and death, opened in Berriedale, a suburb of Hobart in 2011. The building, an enormous bunker out on a peninsula overlooking a river, sneaks up on you as you approach. Once you’re inside -- though a rather small entrance that whisks you underground, the architecture is designed to make you feel lost. There are no signs or directions, so you have to choose your own route. The maze-like paths split in two, with no indication which way you should take, other than which one might seem more attractive to you. Tunnels and stairs -- which don’t always move you up or down by one story -- are not an escape from the disorienting experience -- instead, they might lead you to a tight closterphoic chamber, a lovely cafe overlooking the water, or another massive, previously undiscovered subterranean open space. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: I don't think people expected it to have such an impact. It's kind of like a layer. It's very villainous. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>This is Bianca Blackhall, a Hobart-based musician who has watched MONA reshape the creative community and art landscape of the island. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: Hello, my name is Bianca Blackhall. I live in Tasmania. I'm 27 and I'm a musician among other things.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The museum is the product of Tasmanian millionaire and art collector David Walsh. Walsh made his fortune by gambling, and Blackhall says that he is a much-talked about figure in Hobart.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: He'd be an interesting guest at the dinner table cause he's quite unusual in his manner and that he'd made his money through gambling and he was good with numbers. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>In his introductions to one of MONA’s past exhibits, Walsh recalled of spending a lot of time in Hobart’s museums as a teenager.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: And apparently he used to get dropped off by his parents in town at the museums. And he used to just walk around them all day as a kid and then they'd pick him up again at the night. They’d be like, “come home”. Cause maybe he was, you know, annoying them or whatever at home as a kid.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>With a name like the Museum of Old And New Art, MONA could pretty much include any type of art. But looking at the collection, it’s clear that David Walsh has a fascination with sex and death -- and bets that the rest of us do too. </p>

<p>And, turns out, he’s right. Social animals like us, love thinking about fucking and dying -- and excretion and rot. Walsh himself calls MONA a “subversive adult Disneyland.”</p>

<p>There’s The Holy Virgin Mary, a painting created in part with elephant dung. There’s On the road to heaven the highway to hell, in which the remains of a suicide bomber are cast in dark chocolate. There are dead horses and rotting, festering wounds with swarming bugs encased in acrylic. There’s audioanamatornic skeletons fucking. There’s a digestive machine at turns food into feces and stinks up an entire gallery. The art tries to punch you in the gut, and it mostly succeeds in part because there aren’t any descriptive plaques telling you what’s important about the art or how to feel about it. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Ian Elsner (on ABC RADIO HOBART): I have to say, I’ve never seen anything like it.</p>
  
  <p>Helen Shield: And this from someone who works in, and spends his free time exploring museums. </p>
  
  <p>Ian Elsner (on ABC RADIO HOBART): So often we are in the museum world very stressed out by the labeling. We spend hours and hours thinking about what the labels and placards look like next to a piece of art, and so it was it was really refreshing to just go into the museum and see no labels at all. </p>
  
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: The wording in normal museums is more clinical, like these two people are it's a copulating and they’re enjoying it. They’re always removing feeling from the equation like, oh, objectively this is this, but moving on.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Your only guide to the museum is its inhouse app, called the O. The O will provide some interpretation of the art, but the interpretation is hidden away in a little tab called ARTWANK, which has the icon of a penis. It’s delightful to see art off the pedestal, but Blackhall says that the levity and approach might also be easier for the artists. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: I think it's a very uncomfortable thing to be asked to explain. Please explain. You know, that's Pauline Hanson says, and it's like more, how do I say this stuff without being a twit? It's almost like they've made the unconventional the every day, you know, and sometimes, you know, you wander around there and then there'll be people in smocks getting about and you're like, why are they, well, you know, these are these arts smocks. I'm not sure you know what's happening, but it's, so it's like now it's a part of your every day.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Do you think for Tasmanians there's a certain amount of pride that it's here?</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: Definitely, yeah. People have welcomed it with open arms almost. The way people talk about it, they say things like, “MONA, Yup, Yup. Very good.” You know, like in a kind of very, you know, gruff way but like, “oh yeah. Very good. Yup. Going to go down to the big bonfire. With the kids. And it’s good.”</p>
</blockquote>

<p>MONA has also been well-received by art critics and by tourists visiting from outside Tasmania. As a new destination on the global art tourism circuit, there’s no doubt that the museums has changed Hobart, a city of a quarter million people. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Bianca Blackhall: I feel like it partially began with MONA, this Sauron's Eye of tourism. I feel like we’re in the eye. It’s watching us. The world is going, “that little island there”. And it really in in the last year or two, you can feel the new foot traffic. You can really feel it. It’s a little bit…  I don't know if we're actually quite got the infrastructure for the amount that we have tourists that we now have. Luckily, MONA I think took responsibility for itself but yeah you can definitely feel… we have cruise ships now coming in and that, I don't know if they even go to minor, but we've had the cruise ships coming in and out. Sometimes there are cruise ship traffic jams where they have to wait out in the bay for the other one to leave before they come in. And yeah, it's changed rapidly in a very short space of time. It's quite shocking. </p>
</blockquote>
        
        </div>

<pre><code>        &lt;/div&gt;
            &lt;/div&gt;
</code></pre><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Support Museum Archipelago</a></p>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
</item>
<item>
  <title>62. David Gough Reclaims Stewardship of Tiagarra for Aboriginal Tasmanians</title>
  <link>https://www.museumarchipelago.com/62</link>
  <guid isPermaLink="false">e1a5bc09-e4fb-471f-bcf1-dadb04217a00</guid>
  <pubDate>Mon, 15 Apr 2019 07:45:00 -0400</pubDate>
  <author>Ian Elsner</author>
  <enclosure url="https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/ec795200-a9bd-4922-b8c9-550824e1648e/e1a5bc09-e4fb-471f-bcf1-dadb04217a00.mp3" length="21954478" type="audio/mp3"/>
  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Ian Elsner</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>The displays at the Tiagarra Cultural Centre and Museum in Devonport, Tasmania, Australia were built in 1976 by non-indigenous citizens and scientists without consulting Aboriginal Tasmanians. David Gough, chairperson of the Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation, remembers visiting the museum when he was younger and seeing his own culture presented as extinct.

Today, Gough is the manager of Tiagarra. When he took over, one of the first things he did was put masking tape over the inappropriate and incorrect descriptions and write in the correct information. As Gough explains, racist language covered up and written over by the very people it describes is the perfect metaphor for what Tiagarra was in the past and what it is going to be in the future. 

On this episode, Gough and fellow Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation board member Sammy Howard give a special tour of the museum, describe using the museum to educate members of their community and the wider public, and discuss the future of Tiagarra.</itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>14:32</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/e/ec795200-a9bd-4922-b8c9-550824e1648e/episodes/e/e1a5bc09-e4fb-471f-bcf1-dadb04217a00/cover.jpg?v=6"/>
  <description>&lt;p&gt;The displays at the &lt;a href="https://tiagarra.weebly.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Tiagarra Cultural Centre and Museum&lt;/a&gt; in Devonport, Tasmania, Australia were &lt;a href="https://tiagarra.weebly.com/tiagarra-opening-and-timeline-1975---1979.html" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;built in 1976&lt;/a&gt; by non-indigenous citizens and scientists without consulting Aboriginal Tasmanians. &lt;a href="http://www.utas.edu.au/community/naidoc/community-bio-david-gough" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;David Gough&lt;/a&gt;, chairperson of the &lt;a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/434417366698696/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation,&lt;/a&gt; remembers visiting the museum when he was younger and seeing &lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;his own culture presented as extinct&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Today, Gough is the manager of Tiagarra. When he took over, one of the first things he did was put masking tape over the inappropriate and incorrect descriptions and write in the correct information. As Gough explains, racist language covered up and written over by the very people it describes is the perfect metaphor for what Tiagarra was in the past and what it is going to be in the future. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;On this episode, Gough and fellow Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation board member Sammy Howard give a special tour of the museum, describe using the museum to educate members of their community and the wider public, and &lt;a href="https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tiagarra+Mersey+Bluff&amp;amp;t=h_&amp;amp;ia=web" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;discuss the future of Tiagarra&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;This month on Museum Archipelago, &lt;a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;we’re taking you to Tasmania&lt;/a&gt;. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums. Subscribe to the podcast via &lt;a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/museum-archipelago/id1182755184" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Apple Podcasts&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href="https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubXVzZXVtYXJjaGlwZWxhZ28uY29tL3Jzcw==" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Google Podcasts&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href="https://overcast.fm/itunes1182755184/museum-archipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Overcast&lt;/a&gt;, or &lt;a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ImpDQJqEypxGNslnImXZE" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Spotify&lt;/a&gt; to never miss an episode.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;div&gt;
&lt;h3&gt;&lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Club Archipelago 🏖️&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/h3&gt;
&lt;p&gt;If you like episodes like this one, you’ll love Club Archipelago. &lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Join Club Archipelago today&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt; to help me continue making podcasts about museums (and get some fun benefits)! &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;p&gt;

&lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3&gt;Topics and Links&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;
00:00 Intro&lt;br&gt;
00:15 &lt;a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;This Month, Museum Archipelago is Taking You To Tasmania&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
00:46 &lt;a href="https://tiagarra.weebly.com/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Tiagarra Cultural Centre and Museum&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
01:56 Dave Mangenner Gough&lt;br&gt;
02:53 “To Keep”&lt;br&gt;
03:00 A Brief History and the Importance of Understanding the Past&lt;br&gt;
0438 Tour of the Museum&lt;br&gt;
06:00 Protecting Sites &lt;br&gt;
07:15 &lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Educating the Public About ‘Middens’&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
09:20 “A Collection of Hoop-Jumpers”&lt;br&gt;
10:30 Optimism for the Future of Tiagarra&lt;br&gt;
11:35 Welcome to Country and Acknowledgement of Country&lt;br&gt;
12:40 Connecting with Members of First Nations Around the World&lt;br&gt;
13:28  &lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Join Club Archipelago&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
14:10 Outro&lt;br&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;div&gt;
&lt;h3&gt;Transcript&lt;/h3&gt;
Below is a transcript of Museum Archipelago episode 62. Museum Archipelago is produced for the ear and the only the audio of the episode is canonical. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, refer to the links above.

&lt;div class="wrap-collabsible"&gt;
  
  View Transcript
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&lt;pre&gt;&lt;code&gt;    &amp;lt;p&amp;gt;Museums on the Australian island of Tasmania are a microcosm of museums all around the world. They struggle with properly interpreting their colonial past, the exclusion of First People from telling their stories in major museums, and having a large, privately owned art museum reshape a small town.&amp;lt;/p&amp;gt;
&lt;/code&gt;&lt;/pre&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Today, we visit Tiagarra Cultural Centre and Museum in Davenport, Tasmania, Australia. The museum is situated on Mersey Bluff, a traditional Aboriginal sacred site, that now hosts a nature  trail and a caravan park. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The museum was built in 1976 to promote Aboriginal culture and cultural tourism. But the displays were put together by non-indigenous citizens and scientists. David Gough, of the local Devonport/Latrobe Aboriginal community, remembers visiting the museum when he was younger and seeing offensive words on the plaques and on the walls. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: When we were younger and looking at this stuff and thinking, wow, you know, there's words…. really inappropriate words. Talk about about us as no longer a race of people. People have been writing my family and our stories and writing in a way that suited them. They wrote us as savages and nomadic and all these things. They wrote things like we didn't how to make fire, that we were really limited people. But we lived through two ice ages.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Today, Gough is the chairperson of the Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation and the manager of Tiagarra. One of the first things he did as manager was put masking tape over those words. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: As soon I got the keys to the door back, I put masking tape over words, this sticky tape there… I put masking tape over really inappropriate words. I’ve written over them like, “beautiful people,” rather than some of the words that were under those and said now we can put ourselves in here, rather than… this place told stories… left us as we don’t exist anymore, because we don’t have our stories in here. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Offensive racial language covered up and written over by the very people it describes is the perfect metaphor for what Tiagarra was in the past and what it is going to be in the future. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: Hello, my name is Dave Mangenner Gough. Tiagarra  Cultural Centre and Museum Davenport, Tasmania. Tiagarra  is an Aboriginal name that means “to keep”. This site is a significant site. Where the caravan park is, just there, was where there was huts and a village. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Aboriginal Tasmanians lived in Tasmania for at least 60,000 years: often completely isolated from mainland Australia by rising sea levels. European colonization of the island, and a violent guerrilla war between British colonists and Aboriginal Tasmanians from the mid-1820s to 1832 known as the Tasmanian War, was devastating to Aboriginal Tasmanians. For much of the 20th century, including when TIAGARRA was constructed, the Tasmanian Aboriginal people were widely, and erroneously, thought of as being an extinct cultural and ethnic group.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: There was a roundup of our people and a mass attempted genocide of our people. The impacts of colonization and displacement has meant our families had to chop wood in order to survive and cultures changed and shifted. Growing up in schools, some of the kids go, "Aboriginal, what does that mean?” They don't really grow up knowing a lot about what their ancestors did or what happened to their families because it’s been pretty… well especially here, our families went through great trauma, and that still affects us, so we’re seeing young kids growing up, and there’s just this traumatic patterns that happen. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Through a  series of careful museum upgrades, teaching Aboriginal cultural to as wide an audience as possible, and activism, Gough plans to change this. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: It's important for, for our own families, it's important for the the other kids in the areas as well. Then I think that that's why I go to the schools is to help work with our kids, but also the other kids. And then it builds this mutual respect and an understanding about who we all are. And I think understanding where our past, we'll give them hopefully a way forwards.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Gough took me through the museum as it is today. Except for the masking tape and some ochre handprints,  the museum looks almost exactly as it did in 1976. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;We enter through the front door -- a fake cave that opens to a description of the land bridges across the Bass Strait, which today separates Tasmania from the rest of Australia. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: Yes. We enter with a cave. We actually have some money to make some changes to this session, but we're very mindful that now this place is a time capsule and it's actually becoming a museum of museums. So I'm, I'm really cautious about making changes to it,  but there will be some changes. &lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: This panel here talks about 12,000 years apart, two ice ages where we were connected to Australia and how that allowed what people would say migration and people and animals. We know this actually came up close to here and this is a great lake. People lived around this lake; it wasn't just people walking backwards and forwards. And we've got a lot of aboriginal heritage sites in rock shelters are underneath.&lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: When I bring kids through here and spend an hour with them or talk about living sites. We used caves as living sites and we have several different caves in our country that are, some are living in caves and some are ceremonial caves and the ceremonial caves, we try to keep quiet from most of the public because they get vandalized.&lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: I have visited a lot of our sites cause I was on the Aboriginal Heritage Council for quite a few years and I’ve been very heavily involved in protecting our heritage around the country. What happens is when someone comes across in damages something that we're saying, oh, they didn't realize what it was. So then it would get thrown back at you saying, well, if I had of known, I wouldn't have done that. That's why I went on the council already focused on changing that act, about protecting our heritage to take out that the ignorance clause and to put some due diligence around process so people understand so if they're going to dig somewhere or they're going to do something in an area they need to contact heritage and find out if there's if there is something there that they would damage. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The gallery continues through detailed dioramas. Gough says visitors, specifically school groups of children that come through, are fascinated by them. But he says that without proper interpretation -- without stories being told in the voice of Aboriginal Tasmanians -- the dioramas’  true meaning is lost and the lasting impact is lessened.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: What we keep in here is stone tools and artifacts and there's dioramas about how are our people live through two ice ages. It's very important as an education tool but without us being here, it's kind of pointless.&lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: And this over here talks about what they call middens, which I don't like the word meetings. And a lot of us is as we growing up were, were cause I think it might be a Latin name for rubbish, you know, um, and it's because that's what they saw it as. &lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: But people drive up and with four wheel-drives and, and are destroying them. And we constantly trying to make, get protection. We're trying to get world heritage listing of these areas because some of these are about four times as high as this building. So when you're standing there and you're looking at abalone shells on, on that and you see the hight, you know, that they were feeding, eating, people, eating, that's how old these places are. Many thousands of years old. And right there we have rock Petroglyphs, rock markings in those areas too, which are probably five times older than the Sphinx.&lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: There's a lot of ceremony that happens around these, these living sites. Babies are born and the elders have passed away and they're buried there or cremated there as well. So for us, these not rubbish tips, they’re hospital, the church there, everything, there are graves there, everything, and our family members have had to go up to where they've four wheel drives and rebury people. So in other exposing people's remains. It's really, really sad when you're up there and you're trying to stop people that they're now saying it's their culture to four wheel drive on these areas. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Gough sees the public education as crucial not only to protect the sites, but also protect the stories. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: So this place going through this with kids and that and getting to understand, maybe change some concepts and understanding about what's around them and what a landscape actually means. When you see something like this, you can turn around to someone else and say, do you know what this is? Then you become the educator and then you can pass on that, the reasons about why you would look after it, because once it's removed, the story can go.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The museum is currently closed -- only open for pre-arranged tours consisting mostly of schoolkids and the occasional podcaster. Even the ownership of the museum has been contentious up until recently -- the Devonport City Council rescinded the lease from the Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation in 2014 and did not hand back the keys until 2015. Sammy Howard, fellow board member of the Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation, explains that the museum has been hampered by red tape every step of the way. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Sammy Howard: Really, as Tiagarra, we’ve struggled for years to try and keep the doors open. It's the only museum keeping place in Australia that’s not federally or state funded. I'm just sick to this of watching air governments set us up for failure. They didn't give us the training and the things that we needed. I’m starting to think that we've become a collection of hoop jumpers. Because every time we get through one hope, there's another one put in front of us, hurdle jumpers, whatever. They just seem to, we'll let you go this far, but hang on a minute. You can't go too far. You can't succeed. The white governments have got to be seen as with falling bulk amount of money at this and it's not working. &lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: When you’re trying to deal with these things, what people kept trying to talk about in meetings was Return on Investment. And it's a difficult space when you're talking about sharing and your culture and having a place for your community to be. This place means a lot to our families in this area. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;But both Howard and Gough are optimistic about the future of Tiagarra. The Corporation hopes to bring some higher-tech exhibits like touch screens into the museum and build the resources to maintain opening hours with staff and guides from the community, all while centering their own story.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;A number of factors contribute to their optimism. The museum can now apply for specific funding sources.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;From other Tasmanians, there is an increased interest in understanding the land and its people, and a greater understanding of British colonization of the island.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: We've sort of feeling that this is our year where we will get this place open again. You know, more than just bringing school groups through. With this business plan, what we're doing is to get out to spend some, some of this money and upgrade some of the exhibits in here and put ourselves and our stories into this space. This is really important. That could be an option of having a self guided tour with people walking around it here. And as they come to different sections getting told that story is that where we're wanting to tell. But everything costs money. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And it is not just upgrading  the museum. All over Australia, and indeed all over the world, the practices of welcome to country and acknowledgement of country are slowly becoming more common as a way to open events, school assemblies, and conferences. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: There’s a difference: there's an acknowledgement to country and they can be done by anyone. It is to acknowledge the land and the traditional people of the land. And that can be done by anyone. And it should be done by people to say. Before you do a speech or a forum or a function is firstly to say, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of this land. If you know, the name of them is to mention the name of them and to say that, you know, to acknowledge the land we made on is  is their land and you know, those sort of things. &lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: Welcome to country is done by someone who is from that country. It's basically welcoming people onto our land and for people to understand where they are. And I feel it's very positive and people get to understand, I learned a bit about who we are or what land they're on and learn a bit about the traditional people and custodianship or other than ownership. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Gough describes visiting Native American nations in the US state of Arizona and realizing that the challenge that members of First Nations face all around the world  -- including developing museums that simultaneously serve their own people and the wider public, are similar. And so a are some of the solutions. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: So I do believe they're doing that and more I can see that with my friends and Arizona that there's some acknowledgements coming up around the universities are where they see it. Yeah. And that's, um, that's, that's a great thing.&lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;David Gough: You know. So  when we're doing things here, I'm getting things in support from my friends on the other side of the world that have been going through similar things. So it was a conversation on there [Facebook] last week, which was around acknowledgements. Those people know what we do is, so I was able to comment on that and then people backwards and forwards. So there is some support in that, which is really, really positive. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Hi, it’s Ian again.  Since you’ve listened all the way to the end, I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’re a fan of Museum Archipelago. Join other fans by subscribing to Club Archipelago. It’s a not-so-secret club that gives you access to special bonus features like longer versions of some of my interviews, my take on the museum industry, and insider tours of museums around the world, all with the same humor and quality you’ve come to expect from Museum Archipelago. Join today for $2 a month at Pateron.com/museumarchipelago, and get Museum Archipelago Logo stickers mailed straight to your door. That’s pateron.com/museumarchiepalgo.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This has been Museum Archipelago.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[Outro]&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;pre&gt;&lt;code&gt;    &amp;lt;/div&amp;gt;
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&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
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  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>The displays at the <a href="https://tiagarra.weebly.com/" rel="nofollow">Tiagarra Cultural Centre and Museum</a> in Devonport, Tasmania, Australia were <a href="https://tiagarra.weebly.com/tiagarra-opening-and-timeline-1975---1979.html" rel="nofollow">built in 1976</a> by non-indigenous citizens and scientists without consulting Aboriginal Tasmanians. <a href="http://www.utas.edu.au/community/naidoc/community-bio-david-gough" rel="nofollow">David Gough</a>, chairperson of the <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/434417366698696/" rel="nofollow">Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation,</a> remembers visiting the museum when he was younger and seeing <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians" rel="nofollow">his own culture presented as extinct</a>.</p>

<p>Today, Gough is the manager of Tiagarra. When he took over, one of the first things he did was put masking tape over the inappropriate and incorrect descriptions and write in the correct information. As Gough explains, racist language covered up and written over by the very people it describes is the perfect metaphor for what Tiagarra was in the past and what it is going to be in the future. </p>

<p>On this episode, Gough and fellow Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation board member Sammy Howard give a special tour of the museum, describe using the museum to educate members of their community and the wider public, and <a href="https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tiagarra+Mersey+Bluff&t=h_&ia=web" rel="nofollow">discuss the future of Tiagarra</a>.</p>

<p><em>This month on Museum Archipelago, <a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania" rel="nofollow">we’re taking you to Tasmania</a>. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums. Subscribe to the podcast via <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/museum-archipelago/id1182755184" rel="nofollow">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubXVzZXVtYXJjaGlwZWxhZ28uY29tL3Jzcw==" rel="nofollow">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://overcast.fm/itunes1182755184/museum-archipelago" rel="nofollow">Overcast</a>, or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ImpDQJqEypxGNslnImXZE" rel="nofollow">Spotify</a> to never miss an episode.</em></p>

<div id="club">
<h3><a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Club Archipelago 🏖️</a></h3>
<p>If you like episodes like this one, you’ll love Club Archipelago. <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago"><b>Join Club Archipelago today</b></a> to help me continue making podcasts about museums (and get some fun benefits)! </div>

<p>

<h3>Topics and Links</h3><p>
00:00 Intro<br>
00:15 <a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania">This Month, Museum Archipelago is Taking You To Tasmania</a><br>
00:46 <a href="https://tiagarra.weebly.com/">Tiagarra Cultural Centre and Museum</a><br>
01:56 Dave Mangenner Gough<br>
02:53 “To Keep”<br>
03:00 A Brief History and the Importance of Understanding the Past<br>
0438 Tour of the Museum<br>
06:00 Protecting Sites <br>
07:15 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden">Educating the Public About ‘Middens’</a><br>
09:20 “A Collection of Hoop-Jumpers”<br>
10:30 Optimism for the Future of Tiagarra<br>
11:35 Welcome to Country and Acknowledgement of Country<br>
12:40 Connecting with Members of First Nations Around the World<br>
13:28  <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Join Club Archipelago</a><br>
14:10 Outro<br>
<div id="script">
<h3>Transcript</h3>
Below is a transcript of Museum Archipelago episode 62. Museum Archipelago is produced for the ear and the only the audio of the episode is canonical. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, refer to the links above.</p>

<div class="wrap-collabsible">
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  <div class="collapsible-content">
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        <div>
        <p>[Intro]</p>
        <p>Museums on the Australian island of Tasmania are a microcosm of museums all around the world. They struggle with properly interpreting their colonial past, the exclusion of First People from telling their stories in major museums, and having a large, privately owned art museum reshape a small town.</p>

<p>This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums.</p>

<p>Today, we visit Tiagarra Cultural Centre and Museum in Davenport, Tasmania, Australia. The museum is situated on Mersey Bluff, a traditional Aboriginal sacred site, that now hosts a nature  trail and a caravan park. </p>

<p>The museum was built in 1976 to promote Aboriginal culture and cultural tourism. But the displays were put together by non-indigenous citizens and scientists. David Gough, of the local Devonport/Latrobe Aboriginal community, remembers visiting the museum when he was younger and seeing offensive words on the plaques and on the walls. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: When we were younger and looking at this stuff and thinking, wow, you know, there's words…. really inappropriate words. Talk about about us as no longer a race of people. People have been writing my family and our stories and writing in a way that suited them. They wrote us as savages and nomadic and all these things. They wrote things like we didn't how to make fire, that we were really limited people. But we lived through two ice ages.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Today, Gough is the chairperson of the Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation and the manager of Tiagarra. One of the first things he did as manager was put masking tape over those words. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: As soon I got the keys to the door back, I put masking tape over words, this sticky tape there… I put masking tape over really inappropriate words. I’ve written over them like, “beautiful people,” rather than some of the words that were under those and said now we can put ourselves in here, rather than… this place told stories… left us as we don’t exist anymore, because we don’t have our stories in here. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Offensive racial language covered up and written over by the very people it describes is the perfect metaphor for what Tiagarra was in the past and what it is going to be in the future. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: Hello, my name is Dave Mangenner Gough. Tiagarra  Cultural Centre and Museum Davenport, Tasmania. Tiagarra  is an Aboriginal name that means “to keep”. This site is a significant site. Where the caravan park is, just there, was where there was huts and a village. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Aboriginal Tasmanians lived in Tasmania for at least 60,000 years: often completely isolated from mainland Australia by rising sea levels. European colonization of the island, and a violent guerrilla war between British colonists and Aboriginal Tasmanians from the mid-1820s to 1832 known as the Tasmanian War, was devastating to Aboriginal Tasmanians. For much of the 20th century, including when TIAGARRA was constructed, the Tasmanian Aboriginal people were widely, and erroneously, thought of as being an extinct cultural and ethnic group.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: There was a roundup of our people and a mass attempted genocide of our people. The impacts of colonization and displacement has meant our families had to chop wood in order to survive and cultures changed and shifted. Growing up in schools, some of the kids go, "Aboriginal, what does that mean?” They don't really grow up knowing a lot about what their ancestors did or what happened to their families because it’s been pretty… well especially here, our families went through great trauma, and that still affects us, so we’re seeing young kids growing up, and there’s just this traumatic patterns that happen. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Through a  series of careful museum upgrades, teaching Aboriginal cultural to as wide an audience as possible, and activism, Gough plans to change this. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: It's important for, for our own families, it's important for the the other kids in the areas as well. Then I think that that's why I go to the schools is to help work with our kids, but also the other kids. And then it builds this mutual respect and an understanding about who we all are. And I think understanding where our past, we'll give them hopefully a way forwards.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Gough took me through the museum as it is today. Except for the masking tape and some ochre handprints,  the museum looks almost exactly as it did in 1976. </p>

<p>We enter through the front door -- a fake cave that opens to a description of the land bridges across the Bass Strait, which today separates Tasmania from the rest of Australia. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: Yes. We enter with a cave. We actually have some money to make some changes to this session, but we're very mindful that now this place is a time capsule and it's actually becoming a museum of museums. So I'm, I'm really cautious about making changes to it,  but there will be some changes. </p>
  
  <p>David Gough: This panel here talks about 12,000 years apart, two ice ages where we were connected to Australia and how that allowed what people would say migration and people and animals. We know this actually came up close to here and this is a great lake. People lived around this lake; it wasn't just people walking backwards and forwards. And we've got a lot of aboriginal heritage sites in rock shelters are underneath.</p>
  
  <p>David Gough: When I bring kids through here and spend an hour with them or talk about living sites. We used caves as living sites and we have several different caves in our country that are, some are living in caves and some are ceremonial caves and the ceremonial caves, we try to keep quiet from most of the public because they get vandalized.</p>
  
  <p>David Gough: I have visited a lot of our sites cause I was on the Aboriginal Heritage Council for quite a few years and I’ve been very heavily involved in protecting our heritage around the country. What happens is when someone comes across in damages something that we're saying, oh, they didn't realize what it was. So then it would get thrown back at you saying, well, if I had of known, I wouldn't have done that. That's why I went on the council already focused on changing that act, about protecting our heritage to take out that the ignorance clause and to put some due diligence around process so people understand so if they're going to dig somewhere or they're going to do something in an area they need to contact heritage and find out if there's if there is something there that they would damage. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>The gallery continues through detailed dioramas. Gough says visitors, specifically school groups of children that come through, are fascinated by them. But he says that without proper interpretation -- without stories being told in the voice of Aboriginal Tasmanians -- the dioramas’  true meaning is lost and the lasting impact is lessened.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: What we keep in here is stone tools and artifacts and there's dioramas about how are our people live through two ice ages. It's very important as an education tool but without us being here, it's kind of pointless.</p>
  
  <p>David Gough: And this over here talks about what they call middens, which I don't like the word meetings. And a lot of us is as we growing up were, were cause I think it might be a Latin name for rubbish, you know, um, and it's because that's what they saw it as. </p>
  
  <p>David Gough: But people drive up and with four wheel-drives and, and are destroying them. And we constantly trying to make, get protection. We're trying to get world heritage listing of these areas because some of these are about four times as high as this building. So when you're standing there and you're looking at abalone shells on, on that and you see the hight, you know, that they were feeding, eating, people, eating, that's how old these places are. Many thousands of years old. And right there we have rock Petroglyphs, rock markings in those areas too, which are probably five times older than the Sphinx.</p>
  
  <p>David Gough: There's a lot of ceremony that happens around these, these living sites. Babies are born and the elders have passed away and they're buried there or cremated there as well. So for us, these not rubbish tips, they’re hospital, the church there, everything, there are graves there, everything, and our family members have had to go up to where they've four wheel drives and rebury people. So in other exposing people's remains. It's really, really sad when you're up there and you're trying to stop people that they're now saying it's their culture to four wheel drive on these areas. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Gough sees the public education as crucial not only to protect the sites, but also protect the stories. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: So this place going through this with kids and that and getting to understand, maybe change some concepts and understanding about what's around them and what a landscape actually means. When you see something like this, you can turn around to someone else and say, do you know what this is? Then you become the educator and then you can pass on that, the reasons about why you would look after it, because once it's removed, the story can go.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The museum is currently closed -- only open for pre-arranged tours consisting mostly of schoolkids and the occasional podcaster. Even the ownership of the museum has been contentious up until recently -- the Devonport City Council rescinded the lease from the Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation in 2014 and did not hand back the keys until 2015. Sammy Howard, fellow board member of the Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation, explains that the museum has been hampered by red tape every step of the way. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Sammy Howard: Really, as Tiagarra, we’ve struggled for years to try and keep the doors open. It's the only museum keeping place in Australia that’s not federally or state funded. I'm just sick to this of watching air governments set us up for failure. They didn't give us the training and the things that we needed. I’m starting to think that we've become a collection of hoop jumpers. Because every time we get through one hope, there's another one put in front of us, hurdle jumpers, whatever. They just seem to, we'll let you go this far, but hang on a minute. You can't go too far. You can't succeed. The white governments have got to be seen as with falling bulk amount of money at this and it's not working. </p>
  
  <p>David Gough: When you’re trying to deal with these things, what people kept trying to talk about in meetings was Return on Investment. And it's a difficult space when you're talking about sharing and your culture and having a place for your community to be. This place means a lot to our families in this area. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>But both Howard and Gough are optimistic about the future of Tiagarra. The Corporation hopes to bring some higher-tech exhibits like touch screens into the museum and build the resources to maintain opening hours with staff and guides from the community, all while centering their own story.</p>

<p>A number of factors contribute to their optimism. The museum can now apply for specific funding sources.</p>

<p>From other Tasmanians, there is an increased interest in understanding the land and its people, and a greater understanding of British colonization of the island.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: We've sort of feeling that this is our year where we will get this place open again. You know, more than just bringing school groups through. With this business plan, what we're doing is to get out to spend some, some of this money and upgrade some of the exhibits in here and put ourselves and our stories into this space. This is really important. That could be an option of having a self guided tour with people walking around it here. And as they come to different sections getting told that story is that where we're wanting to tell. But everything costs money. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>And it is not just upgrading  the museum. All over Australia, and indeed all over the world, the practices of welcome to country and acknowledgement of country are slowly becoming more common as a way to open events, school assemblies, and conferences. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: There’s a difference: there's an acknowledgement to country and they can be done by anyone. It is to acknowledge the land and the traditional people of the land. And that can be done by anyone. And it should be done by people to say. Before you do a speech or a forum or a function is firstly to say, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of this land. If you know, the name of them is to mention the name of them and to say that, you know, to acknowledge the land we made on is  is their land and you know, those sort of things. </p>
  
  <p>David Gough: Welcome to country is done by someone who is from that country. It's basically welcoming people onto our land and for people to understand where they are. And I feel it's very positive and people get to understand, I learned a bit about who we are or what land they're on and learn a bit about the traditional people and custodianship or other than ownership. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Gough describes visiting Native American nations in the US state of Arizona and realizing that the challenge that members of First Nations face all around the world  -- including developing museums that simultaneously serve their own people and the wider public, are similar. And so a are some of the solutions. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: So I do believe they're doing that and more I can see that with my friends and Arizona that there's some acknowledgements coming up around the universities are where they see it. Yeah. And that's, um, that's, that's a great thing.</p>
  
  <p>David Gough: You know. So  when we're doing things here, I'm getting things in support from my friends on the other side of the world that have been going through similar things. So it was a conversation on there [Facebook] last week, which was around acknowledgements. Those people know what we do is, so I was able to comment on that and then people backwards and forwards. So there is some support in that, which is really, really positive. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Hi, it’s Ian again.  Since you’ve listened all the way to the end, I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’re a fan of Museum Archipelago. Join other fans by subscribing to Club Archipelago. It’s a not-so-secret club that gives you access to special bonus features like longer versions of some of my interviews, my take on the museum industry, and insider tours of museums around the world, all with the same humor and quality you’ve come to expect from Museum Archipelago. Join today for $2 a month at Pateron.com/museumarchipelago, and get Museum Archipelago Logo stickers mailed straight to your door. That’s pateron.com/museumarchiepalgo.</p>

<p>This has been Museum Archipelago.</p>

<p>[Outro]</p>
        </div>

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  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>The displays at the <a href="https://tiagarra.weebly.com/" rel="nofollow">Tiagarra Cultural Centre and Museum</a> in Devonport, Tasmania, Australia were <a href="https://tiagarra.weebly.com/tiagarra-opening-and-timeline-1975---1979.html" rel="nofollow">built in 1976</a> by non-indigenous citizens and scientists without consulting Aboriginal Tasmanians. <a href="http://www.utas.edu.au/community/naidoc/community-bio-david-gough" rel="nofollow">David Gough</a>, chairperson of the <a href="https://www.facebook.com/groups/434417366698696/" rel="nofollow">Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation,</a> remembers visiting the museum when he was younger and seeing <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aboriginal_Tasmanians" rel="nofollow">his own culture presented as extinct</a>.</p>

<p>Today, Gough is the manager of Tiagarra. When he took over, one of the first things he did was put masking tape over the inappropriate and incorrect descriptions and write in the correct information. As Gough explains, racist language covered up and written over by the very people it describes is the perfect metaphor for what Tiagarra was in the past and what it is going to be in the future. </p>

<p>On this episode, Gough and fellow Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation board member Sammy Howard give a special tour of the museum, describe using the museum to educate members of their community and the wider public, and <a href="https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tiagarra+Mersey+Bluff&t=h_&ia=web" rel="nofollow">discuss the future of Tiagarra</a>.</p>

<p><em>This month on Museum Archipelago, <a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania" rel="nofollow">we’re taking you to Tasmania</a>. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums. Subscribe to the podcast via <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/museum-archipelago/id1182755184" rel="nofollow">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubXVzZXVtYXJjaGlwZWxhZ28uY29tL3Jzcw==" rel="nofollow">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://overcast.fm/itunes1182755184/museum-archipelago" rel="nofollow">Overcast</a>, or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ImpDQJqEypxGNslnImXZE" rel="nofollow">Spotify</a> to never miss an episode.</em></p>

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<h3>Topics and Links</h3><p>
00:00 Intro<br>
00:15 <a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania">This Month, Museum Archipelago is Taking You To Tasmania</a><br>
00:46 <a href="https://tiagarra.weebly.com/">Tiagarra Cultural Centre and Museum</a><br>
01:56 Dave Mangenner Gough<br>
02:53 “To Keep”<br>
03:00 A Brief History and the Importance of Understanding the Past<br>
0438 Tour of the Museum<br>
06:00 Protecting Sites <br>
07:15 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midden">Educating the Public About ‘Middens’</a><br>
09:20 “A Collection of Hoop-Jumpers”<br>
10:30 Optimism for the Future of Tiagarra<br>
11:35 Welcome to Country and Acknowledgement of Country<br>
12:40 Connecting with Members of First Nations Around the World<br>
13:28  <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Join Club Archipelago</a><br>
14:10 Outro<br>
<div id="script">
<h3>Transcript</h3>
Below is a transcript of Museum Archipelago episode 62. Museum Archipelago is produced for the ear and the only the audio of the episode is canonical. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, refer to the links above.</p>

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        <p>[Intro]</p>
        <p>Museums on the Australian island of Tasmania are a microcosm of museums all around the world. They struggle with properly interpreting their colonial past, the exclusion of First People from telling their stories in major museums, and having a large, privately owned art museum reshape a small town.</p>

<p>This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. Over the course of three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums.</p>

<p>Today, we visit Tiagarra Cultural Centre and Museum in Davenport, Tasmania, Australia. The museum is situated on Mersey Bluff, a traditional Aboriginal sacred site, that now hosts a nature  trail and a caravan park. </p>

<p>The museum was built in 1976 to promote Aboriginal culture and cultural tourism. But the displays were put together by non-indigenous citizens and scientists. David Gough, of the local Devonport/Latrobe Aboriginal community, remembers visiting the museum when he was younger and seeing offensive words on the plaques and on the walls. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: When we were younger and looking at this stuff and thinking, wow, you know, there's words…. really inappropriate words. Talk about about us as no longer a race of people. People have been writing my family and our stories and writing in a way that suited them. They wrote us as savages and nomadic and all these things. They wrote things like we didn't how to make fire, that we were really limited people. But we lived through two ice ages.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Today, Gough is the chairperson of the Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation and the manager of Tiagarra. One of the first things he did as manager was put masking tape over those words. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: As soon I got the keys to the door back, I put masking tape over words, this sticky tape there… I put masking tape over really inappropriate words. I’ve written over them like, “beautiful people,” rather than some of the words that were under those and said now we can put ourselves in here, rather than… this place told stories… left us as we don’t exist anymore, because we don’t have our stories in here. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Offensive racial language covered up and written over by the very people it describes is the perfect metaphor for what Tiagarra was in the past and what it is going to be in the future. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: Hello, my name is Dave Mangenner Gough. Tiagarra  Cultural Centre and Museum Davenport, Tasmania. Tiagarra  is an Aboriginal name that means “to keep”. This site is a significant site. Where the caravan park is, just there, was where there was huts and a village. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Aboriginal Tasmanians lived in Tasmania for at least 60,000 years: often completely isolated from mainland Australia by rising sea levels. European colonization of the island, and a violent guerrilla war between British colonists and Aboriginal Tasmanians from the mid-1820s to 1832 known as the Tasmanian War, was devastating to Aboriginal Tasmanians. For much of the 20th century, including when TIAGARRA was constructed, the Tasmanian Aboriginal people were widely, and erroneously, thought of as being an extinct cultural and ethnic group.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: There was a roundup of our people and a mass attempted genocide of our people. The impacts of colonization and displacement has meant our families had to chop wood in order to survive and cultures changed and shifted. Growing up in schools, some of the kids go, "Aboriginal, what does that mean?” They don't really grow up knowing a lot about what their ancestors did or what happened to their families because it’s been pretty… well especially here, our families went through great trauma, and that still affects us, so we’re seeing young kids growing up, and there’s just this traumatic patterns that happen. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Through a  series of careful museum upgrades, teaching Aboriginal cultural to as wide an audience as possible, and activism, Gough plans to change this. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: It's important for, for our own families, it's important for the the other kids in the areas as well. Then I think that that's why I go to the schools is to help work with our kids, but also the other kids. And then it builds this mutual respect and an understanding about who we all are. And I think understanding where our past, we'll give them hopefully a way forwards.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Gough took me through the museum as it is today. Except for the masking tape and some ochre handprints,  the museum looks almost exactly as it did in 1976. </p>

<p>We enter through the front door -- a fake cave that opens to a description of the land bridges across the Bass Strait, which today separates Tasmania from the rest of Australia. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: Yes. We enter with a cave. We actually have some money to make some changes to this session, but we're very mindful that now this place is a time capsule and it's actually becoming a museum of museums. So I'm, I'm really cautious about making changes to it,  but there will be some changes. </p>
  
  <p>David Gough: This panel here talks about 12,000 years apart, two ice ages where we were connected to Australia and how that allowed what people would say migration and people and animals. We know this actually came up close to here and this is a great lake. People lived around this lake; it wasn't just people walking backwards and forwards. And we've got a lot of aboriginal heritage sites in rock shelters are underneath.</p>
  
  <p>David Gough: When I bring kids through here and spend an hour with them or talk about living sites. We used caves as living sites and we have several different caves in our country that are, some are living in caves and some are ceremonial caves and the ceremonial caves, we try to keep quiet from most of the public because they get vandalized.</p>
  
  <p>David Gough: I have visited a lot of our sites cause I was on the Aboriginal Heritage Council for quite a few years and I’ve been very heavily involved in protecting our heritage around the country. What happens is when someone comes across in damages something that we're saying, oh, they didn't realize what it was. So then it would get thrown back at you saying, well, if I had of known, I wouldn't have done that. That's why I went on the council already focused on changing that act, about protecting our heritage to take out that the ignorance clause and to put some due diligence around process so people understand so if they're going to dig somewhere or they're going to do something in an area they need to contact heritage and find out if there's if there is something there that they would damage. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>The gallery continues through detailed dioramas. Gough says visitors, specifically school groups of children that come through, are fascinated by them. But he says that without proper interpretation -- without stories being told in the voice of Aboriginal Tasmanians -- the dioramas’  true meaning is lost and the lasting impact is lessened.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: What we keep in here is stone tools and artifacts and there's dioramas about how are our people live through two ice ages. It's very important as an education tool but without us being here, it's kind of pointless.</p>
  
  <p>David Gough: And this over here talks about what they call middens, which I don't like the word meetings. And a lot of us is as we growing up were, were cause I think it might be a Latin name for rubbish, you know, um, and it's because that's what they saw it as. </p>
  
  <p>David Gough: But people drive up and with four wheel-drives and, and are destroying them. And we constantly trying to make, get protection. We're trying to get world heritage listing of these areas because some of these are about four times as high as this building. So when you're standing there and you're looking at abalone shells on, on that and you see the hight, you know, that they were feeding, eating, people, eating, that's how old these places are. Many thousands of years old. And right there we have rock Petroglyphs, rock markings in those areas too, which are probably five times older than the Sphinx.</p>
  
  <p>David Gough: There's a lot of ceremony that happens around these, these living sites. Babies are born and the elders have passed away and they're buried there or cremated there as well. So for us, these not rubbish tips, they’re hospital, the church there, everything, there are graves there, everything, and our family members have had to go up to where they've four wheel drives and rebury people. So in other exposing people's remains. It's really, really sad when you're up there and you're trying to stop people that they're now saying it's their culture to four wheel drive on these areas. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Gough sees the public education as crucial not only to protect the sites, but also protect the stories. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: So this place going through this with kids and that and getting to understand, maybe change some concepts and understanding about what's around them and what a landscape actually means. When you see something like this, you can turn around to someone else and say, do you know what this is? Then you become the educator and then you can pass on that, the reasons about why you would look after it, because once it's removed, the story can go.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The museum is currently closed -- only open for pre-arranged tours consisting mostly of schoolkids and the occasional podcaster. Even the ownership of the museum has been contentious up until recently -- the Devonport City Council rescinded the lease from the Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation in 2014 and did not hand back the keys until 2015. Sammy Howard, fellow board member of the Six Rivers Aboriginal Corporation, explains that the museum has been hampered by red tape every step of the way. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Sammy Howard: Really, as Tiagarra, we’ve struggled for years to try and keep the doors open. It's the only museum keeping place in Australia that’s not federally or state funded. I'm just sick to this of watching air governments set us up for failure. They didn't give us the training and the things that we needed. I’m starting to think that we've become a collection of hoop jumpers. Because every time we get through one hope, there's another one put in front of us, hurdle jumpers, whatever. They just seem to, we'll let you go this far, but hang on a minute. You can't go too far. You can't succeed. The white governments have got to be seen as with falling bulk amount of money at this and it's not working. </p>
  
  <p>David Gough: When you’re trying to deal with these things, what people kept trying to talk about in meetings was Return on Investment. And it's a difficult space when you're talking about sharing and your culture and having a place for your community to be. This place means a lot to our families in this area. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>But both Howard and Gough are optimistic about the future of Tiagarra. The Corporation hopes to bring some higher-tech exhibits like touch screens into the museum and build the resources to maintain opening hours with staff and guides from the community, all while centering their own story.</p>

<p>A number of factors contribute to their optimism. The museum can now apply for specific funding sources.</p>

<p>From other Tasmanians, there is an increased interest in understanding the land and its people, and a greater understanding of British colonization of the island.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: We've sort of feeling that this is our year where we will get this place open again. You know, more than just bringing school groups through. With this business plan, what we're doing is to get out to spend some, some of this money and upgrade some of the exhibits in here and put ourselves and our stories into this space. This is really important. That could be an option of having a self guided tour with people walking around it here. And as they come to different sections getting told that story is that where we're wanting to tell. But everything costs money. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>And it is not just upgrading  the museum. All over Australia, and indeed all over the world, the practices of welcome to country and acknowledgement of country are slowly becoming more common as a way to open events, school assemblies, and conferences. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: There’s a difference: there's an acknowledgement to country and they can be done by anyone. It is to acknowledge the land and the traditional people of the land. And that can be done by anyone. And it should be done by people to say. Before you do a speech or a forum or a function is firstly to say, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of this land. If you know, the name of them is to mention the name of them and to say that, you know, to acknowledge the land we made on is  is their land and you know, those sort of things. </p>
  
  <p>David Gough: Welcome to country is done by someone who is from that country. It's basically welcoming people onto our land and for people to understand where they are. And I feel it's very positive and people get to understand, I learned a bit about who we are or what land they're on and learn a bit about the traditional people and custodianship or other than ownership. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Gough describes visiting Native American nations in the US state of Arizona and realizing that the challenge that members of First Nations face all around the world  -- including developing museums that simultaneously serve their own people and the wider public, are similar. And so a are some of the solutions. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>David Gough: So I do believe they're doing that and more I can see that with my friends and Arizona that there's some acknowledgements coming up around the universities are where they see it. Yeah. And that's, um, that's, that's a great thing.</p>
  
  <p>David Gough: You know. So  when we're doing things here, I'm getting things in support from my friends on the other side of the world that have been going through similar things. So it was a conversation on there [Facebook] last week, which was around acknowledgements. Those people know what we do is, so I was able to comment on that and then people backwards and forwards. So there is some support in that, which is really, really positive. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Hi, it’s Ian again.  Since you’ve listened all the way to the end, I’m going to go out on a limb and say you’re a fan of Museum Archipelago. Join other fans by subscribing to Club Archipelago. It’s a not-so-secret club that gives you access to special bonus features like longer versions of some of my interviews, my take on the museum industry, and insider tours of museums around the world, all with the same humor and quality you’ve come to expect from Museum Archipelago. Join today for $2 a month at Pateron.com/museumarchipelago, and get Museum Archipelago Logo stickers mailed straight to your door. That’s pateron.com/museumarchiepalgo.</p>

<p>This has been Museum Archipelago.</p>

<p>[Outro]</p>
        </div>

<p></h3></p><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Support Museum Archipelago</a></p>]]>
  </itunes:summary>
</item>
<item>
  <title>61. Jody Steele Centers the Convict Women of Tasmania's Penal Colonies at the Female Factory</title>
  <link>https://www.museumarchipelago.com/61</link>
  <guid isPermaLink="false">7e197b6d-1d38-4da7-b20a-bbe98c217f84</guid>
  <pubDate>Mon, 01 Apr 2019 08:15:00 -0400</pubDate>
  <author>Ian Elsner</author>
  <enclosure url="https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/ec795200-a9bd-4922-b8c9-550824e1648e/7e197b6d-1d38-4da7-b20a-bbe98c217f84.mp3" length="22256941" type="audio/mp3"/>
  <itunes:episodeType>full</itunes:episodeType>
  <itunes:author>Ian Elsner</itunes:author>
  <itunes:subtitle>Penal transportation from England to Australia from the late 1700s to the mid-1800s was used to expand Britain's spheres of influence and to reduce overcrowding in British prisons. The male convict experience is well-known, but the Cascades Female Factory in Hobart is at the center of a shift in how Australians think of the role that female convicts played in the colonization of Tasmania. 

Dr. Jody Steele, the heritage interpretation manager for the Port Arthur Historic Site Management Authority, which includes the Female Factory, says that having a convict ancestor used to be considered shameful. But in the past 20 years, attitudes have shifted dramatically. Sites like the Female Factory, the Female Convicts Research Centre, and a general interest in geological research have helped the public better understand how the forced labor of women built the economy of the island. 
		 	 	 		
Today, the museum is on the cusp of a major renovation. Dr Steele describes how the proposed design, chosen by an all-female panel, will present the female convict experience in Tasmania.</itunes:subtitle>
  <itunes:duration>14:44</itunes:duration>
  <itunes:explicit>no</itunes:explicit>
  <itunes:image href="https://media24.fireside.fm/file/fireside-images-2024/podcasts/images/e/ec795200-a9bd-4922-b8c9-550824e1648e/episodes/7/7e197b6d-1d38-4da7-b20a-bbe98c217f84/cover.jpg?v=2"/>
  <description>&lt;p&gt;Penal transportation from England to Australia from the late 1700s to the mid-1800s was used to expand Britain's spheres of influence and to reduce overcrowding in British prisons. The male convict experience is well-known, but the &lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascades_Female_Factory" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Cascades Female Factory&lt;/a&gt; in Hobart is at the center of a shift in how Australians think of the role that female convicts played in the colonization of Tasmania. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Dr. Jody Steele, the heritage interpretation manager for the &lt;a href="https://portarthur.org.au/about-us/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Port Arthur Historic Site Management Authority&lt;/a&gt;, which includes the Female Factory, says that having a convict ancestor used to be considered shameful. But in the past 20 years, attitudes have shifted dramatically. Sites like &lt;a href="https://femalefactory.org.au/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;the Female Factory&lt;/a&gt;, the &lt;a href="https://www.femaleconvicts.org.au" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Female Convicts Research Centre&lt;/a&gt;, and a general interest in geological research have helped the public better understand how the forced labor of women built the economy of the island. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Today, the museum is on &lt;a href="https://femalefactory.org.au/event/cascades-female-factory-design-and-interpretation-centre-project/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;the cusp of a major renovation&lt;/a&gt;. Dr Steele describes how the proposed design, chosen by an all-female panel, will present the female convict experience in Tasmania.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;em&gt;This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. For the next three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums. Subscribe to the podcast via &lt;a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/museum-archipelago/id1182755184" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Apple Podcasts&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href="https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubXVzZXVtYXJjaGlwZWxhZ28uY29tL3Jzcw==" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Google Podcasts&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href="https://overcast.fm/itunes1182755184/museum-archipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Overcast&lt;/a&gt;, or &lt;a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ImpDQJqEypxGNslnImXZE" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Spotify&lt;/a&gt; to never miss an episode.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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&lt;p&gt;If you like episodes like this one, you’ll love Club Archipelago. &lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;&lt;b&gt;Join Club Archipelago today&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/a&gt; to help me continue making podcasts about museums (and get some fun benefits)! &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;p&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;&lt;h3&gt;Topics and Links&lt;/h3&gt;&lt;p&gt;
00:00 Intro&lt;br&gt;
00:15 &lt;a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;This Month, Museum Archipelago is Taking You To Tasmania&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
00:46 &lt;a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascades_Female_Factory" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Cascades Female Factory&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
01:00 The Male and Female Convict Experience&lt;br&gt;
02:26 Dr. Jody Steele&lt;br&gt;
02:48 Why It’s Called The Female Factory &lt;br&gt;
04:30 Being A “Respectable” Women In Colonial Society&lt;br&gt;
06:10 Interpreting the Site&lt;br&gt;
07:05 The Lack of Artifacts at the Site&lt;br&gt;
08:50 Australia's Changing Attitudes Towards Convict Ancestors&lt;br&gt;
09:38 &lt;a href="https://femalefactory.org.au/event/cascades-female-factory-design-and-interpretation-centre-project/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;History and Interpretation Center Design Competition&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
11:12 &lt;a href="https://www.femaleconvicts.org.au/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Female Convicts Research Centre&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
12:15 The Reminders of Convict Labor in Hobart&lt;br&gt;
13:20 &lt;a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago" target="_blank" rel="nofollow noopener"&gt;Join Club Archipelago&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;
14:00 Outro
&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;div&gt;
&lt;h3&gt;Transcript&lt;/h3&gt;
Below is a transcript of Museum Archipelago episode 61. Museum Archipelago is produced for the ear and the only the audio of the episode is canonical. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, refer to the links above.

&lt;div class="wrap-collabsible"&gt;
  
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        &lt;p&gt;[Intro]&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Museums on the Australian island of Tasmania are a microcosm of museums all around the world. They struggle with properly interpreting their colonial past, the exclusion of First People from telling their stories in major museums, and having a large, privately owned art museum reshape a small town.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. For the next three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Today, we begin with the Cascades Female Factory in the Tasmanian capital city of Hobart. It’s at the center of a shift in how Australians think of the role that convicts played in the colonization of the island. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: The male convict story is the story that everyone’s heard about and everyone wants to discover something about it. So I think it’s odd that the female story is equally as fascinating and as intricate as the male story, and yet until recently nobody’s really shown that much of an interest in it with the exception of family researchers or people who have a specific connection.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The site tells the story of European colonization of Van Diemen’s Land, the original European name for the island, from the female perspective.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: The whole penal transportation to Australia and subsequently Van Diemen’s Land started as a result of prisons in England. Post industrial revolution, and people turning to crime without all the industries that they were used to, machines taking their jobs, the prisons just started to literally overflow. So they needed a mechanism to get the people out of those spaces, stop the overcrowding, and the colonization of Australia was an attempt to get that population out of Britain, and essentially far far away. Over 170,000 men women and children were transported during the transportation phase, which started in New South Wales in the late 1700s and in Van Diemen’s Land in 1803.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The only museum in Tasmania that represents the female convict story is the Cascades Female Factory, where Dr. Jody Steele works as the heritage interpretation manager.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: Hi. My name is Jody Steele. I am the heritage interpretation manager for the Port Arthur Historic Site Management Authority, and we are lucky enough to be the portfolio managers of three world heritage sites with form part of the Austrian convict sites world heritage nomination. And the Female Factory fall under our portfolio. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Understanding why the site is called the Female Factory means understanding how the female convicts were seen as resources to the early colonists. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: Moving men out here as a labor force was something that seemed to make a lot of sense to the early Brits, to be able to pack up men and move them across the fall trees and to gather all the materials necessary for building, as in literally building a new colony. And then of course, if you want that population to grow, that can’t be done with men alone. So in the early 1800s, the first vessels with women on board came. Those women in the first days as convicts were usually assigned directly out to the early Hobart population. As your servants, housemaids, that sort of thing. As soon as anyone in that situation needed to be reprimanded for anything that they’ve done, they needed an establishment to do that. And so, as a result of that, the Cascades Female Factory was established. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Right here.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: Right here. So the female convicts were an amazing resource to that particular set of colonials. They could have female convicts coming in and care for their children. Witnesses educators and a lot of these women weren’t just petty criminals you know they were quite skilled at a number of trades. So you had two seamstresses and all of the trades that the men didn’t lend their hands to. You needed somebody to do laundry for the colony. And so having a prison filled with women who you wanted to put under hard labour to punish them. Laundry was one of the greatest ways to do that. You could well if the military presence could have their their uniforms laundered here and washed and ironed so it gave the colony a massive resource of trades that the men weren’t doing. Which is why it got its name as the Female Factory. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The system operated under a strict series of punishments, that was nevertheless at the discretion of the guards. It was managed by a hierarchy of those incarcerated and was encouraged by attitudes towards what it meant to be a respectable women in the colonial society. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: A lot of the women who were assigned out were assigned out to people. Some of them to people that they knew. Some of them even to their husbands which is quite curious and I think in those instances there is an absurdity to the system where these women were assigned to people that they were genuinely in love with. They wanted to have families with. They got pregnant. Pregnancy while you were under sentence was considered a crime which meant that those women ultimately would be removed from their assignment brought back here to have child they would spend time with the child when it was a baby. They would be usually weaned quite quickly from their mother. And sometimes you know within within months that mother would then be back under sentence being punished separated from her child with the child being left in the care of other convict women in the nursery usually by sort of three years of age. The child would then be removed from this location the nursery here and removed into an orphan school. You may never see your child again. Now as somebody who wanted to have that baby with the person they were with. That must have been horrific. And then there is the flip side to that story when you could be assigned out to an individual master. He may have had absolutely no choice in falling pregnant and yet you were the one who gets punished for that occurring. You would come back in here and quite often that into that individual who you were assigned to originally would simply just get a new female convict servant and you know you’re left under punishment for something that was clearly not your fault it must have been horrific. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Steele says the biggest interpretation challenge is that is so easy for visitors to see the entire population of incarcerated people rather than individuals with vastly different, often contradictory, experiences.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: I think the biggest challenge when interpreting a site like this is people come with an understanding of a mass population. They think of a convict population. And unless they happen to be descended from an individual convict, they find it really hard to think about the individual within the system. And with over 7,000 women passing through these few yards alone, it tends to be the mass mentally that we try to break down here, which from my perspective is the most fun part of what I get to do, is to find the odd individual who has this amazing story, whether it be a tragic tale or a tale of resilience and strength. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Telling the stories of odd individuals is complicated by the fact that not many artifacts remain. The site itself is made up of three yards, surrounded by sandstone walls with only markings on the ground indicating the size of prison cells or nurseries.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: The challenge here, unlike a lot of our convict site museums is that the artifactual material associated with female convicts just isn’t there. Even our state museums, don’t have a lot of artifacts associated with female convicts. There isn’t the material history surrounding them that has been maintained for them men. &lt;/p&gt;
  
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: Probably one of the hardest things to deal with is the fact that most of the convict population didn’t have access to the time or the inclination to sit down and write a daily journal, and for most of them the literacy wasn’t particularly high usually when they arrived, but part of the convict system was actually educating a lot of these people, so a lot of them left with a much better education when they got in, but the time they could have started writing a journal, they were most likely off getting married, building businesses. So there’s a massive gap, and we really do rely heavily on what is the administrator’s view of these individuals, right down to the way they described them when they got off the ships. And then, we rely heavily on their descendants, who have all those stories and the oral histories of how these families built up from these individual women. &lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Dr. Steele talks about a massive cultural shift in Australian attitudes towards ancestors who may have been incarcerated. Because the family memory of the Female Factory goes back just two or three generations, it’s an opportunity for the museum to better interpret and educate by becoming a hub for these stories. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: For a very long time, having a convict ancestor was considered something to be ashamed of. And that has probably only shifted in the past 20 years of having a sense of pride of being descended from a convict when they became aware that even through they may have been criminals, some of them quite serious, some of them petty, that they were responsible for building the new colony of Australia. And that’s been a real shift of people being real proud of it now, and because genealogical research is now enormous, we’ve got access to things that aren’t that oppressive record. Business records, and images of shopfronts where these people built businesses. Massive massive change in attitude.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Female Factory is in the middle of a design process to open a brand new History and Interpretation Centre on the site. The process began with an architectural design competition judged by an all-female panel.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: It’s really important when we’re working on this site that we recognise the contribution of women to society. I mean that is that is why this place is is recognised and part of that process when we we put the call out for the architectural design competition was that we really wanted women to contribute to this project we had over 50 original people who came in who put their hand up to get involved in the competition and we pulled together a team of amazing women mostly architects and the chair of our board Sharon Sullivan who oversaw the process and did all of the review of all of the nominations. Looking for things like female contribution of course looking at the Heritage impacts and how the building would would sit in in the landscape and what stories the building itself might tell the new building that they were hoping to put in this space will be clearly identifiable as a brand spanking new building that is that is part of our intention but it will also hopefully be aside from being a beautiful architectural structure. We’re hoping that it will recede and then the individual stories will come out as you’re inside the building. The building will be located over the cellblock location so I guess you know in a lineal form it will represent part of the historic landscape. But outside of that most of our storytelling will have to be in a very different format and we’ll have to get really creative. We work really closely with a group of people called that are called the female convict Research Center that’s started as as a bunch of women female researchers who I think they would forgive me for saying they’re totally obsessed with female convict history and they have built up a an amazing database of all of the female convict women. And so we have access to that database and it would I mean what an amazing thing to be able to know that you have a female convict ancestor to be able to come here to tap into that find out how long they were here exactly what space they were living in working in even being punished in to be able to go to that space you know and stand essentially in the footprints of your ancestor would be an amazing thing.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You can see the winning design in the show notes for the episode. The architects call for a beautiful but solum building with plenty of play between the open spaces of the yards as they are today, and confined spaces of cells as they used to exist. Hobart is a city partially built with convict labor, but the reminders — the type of stone on a building for example — are subtle, and you have to know what you’re looking for. A structure like the one proposed removes the sublty, and makes it harder to forget. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: I would I would love you know the female convict history to be the first thing that people engage with and then to flow on into into the story of the men. I want people to walk away even if they don’t have a better understanding of convict female convict history. I want them to walk away asking questions and I think that’s what we all want when we build these places we want them to start questioning what they believe what they think what they knew before they walked in the door. I don’t necessarily I mean subliminally I’d love to educate everyone who walks through the door but quite often those people are on holidays and they probably don’t want me lecturing to them for an hour and a half about convict history. But I want them to walk away questioning you know what this place meant to Tasmania or you know what the women at least felt or went through to try and get some kind of gut reaction from them and to that experience that these people went through to create the place that we live in working today.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Do you like the podcasts I make? Club Archipelago is the best way to support me. It gives you access to a special bonus podcast that’s an even deeper dive into the museum landscape — kind of like the director’s commentary to the main show. There are longer versions of some of my interviews, commentary on the industry as a whole, and insider tours of various museums from past guests, all with the same humor and quality you’ve come to expect from Museum Archipelago. Join today for as little as $2 at Pateron.com/museumarchipelago, and get Museum Archipelago Logo stickers mailed straight to your door. That’s pateron.com/museumarchiepalgo. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;[Outro]&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
  &lt;p&gt;Jody Steele: I can admit, I like you am a total museum junke and wherever I go I drag anyone who I’m traveling with to every possible museum to every possible museum in every possible place to wherever I travel around the globe. I’m the person who reads the sign and then taps on it to figure out what it is made out of, and whether I like the font. You’re there, you’re there with me, you do it in every museum you walk into.&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
        
        
        &lt;/div&gt; &lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br&gt;
&lt;/div&gt;
</description>
  <content:encoded>
    <![CDATA[<p>Penal transportation from England to Australia from the late 1700s to the mid-1800s was used to expand Britain&#39;s spheres of influence and to reduce overcrowding in British prisons. The male convict experience is well-known, but the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascades_Female_Factory" rel="nofollow">Cascades Female Factory</a> in Hobart is at the center of a shift in how Australians think of the role that female convicts played in the colonization of Tasmania. </p>

<p>Dr. Jody Steele, the heritage interpretation manager for the <a href="https://portarthur.org.au/about-us/" rel="nofollow">Port Arthur Historic Site Management Authority</a>, which includes the Female Factory, says that having a convict ancestor used to be considered shameful. But in the past 20 years, attitudes have shifted dramatically. Sites like <a href="https://femalefactory.org.au/" rel="nofollow">the Female Factory</a>, the <a href="https://www.femaleconvicts.org.au" rel="nofollow">Female Convicts Research Centre</a>, and a general interest in geological research have helped the public better understand how the forced labor of women built the economy of the island. </p>

<p>Today, the museum is on <a href="https://femalefactory.org.au/event/cascades-female-factory-design-and-interpretation-centre-project/" rel="nofollow">the cusp of a major renovation</a>. Dr Steele describes how the proposed design, chosen by an all-female panel, will present the female convict experience in Tasmania.</p>

<p><em>This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. For the next three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums. Subscribe to the podcast via <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/museum-archipelago/id1182755184" rel="nofollow">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubXVzZXVtYXJjaGlwZWxhZ28uY29tL3Jzcw==" rel="nofollow">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://overcast.fm/itunes1182755184/museum-archipelago" rel="nofollow">Overcast</a>, or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ImpDQJqEypxGNslnImXZE" rel="nofollow">Spotify</a> to never miss an episode.</em></p>

<div id="club">
<h3><a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Club Archipelago 🏖️</a></h3>
<p>If you like episodes like this one, you’ll love Club Archipelago. <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago"><b>Join Club Archipelago today</b></a> to help me continue making podcasts about museums (and get some fun benefits)! </div>

<p>
<h3>Topics and Links</h3><p>
00:00 Intro<br>
00:15 <a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania">This Month, Museum Archipelago is Taking You To Tasmania</a><br>
00:46 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascades_Female_Factory">Cascades Female Factory</a><br>
01:00 The Male and Female Convict Experience<br>
02:26 Dr. Jody Steele<br>
02:48 Why It’s Called The Female Factory <br>
04:30 Being A “Respectable” Women In Colonial Society<br>
06:10 Interpreting the Site<br>
07:05 The Lack of Artifacts at the Site<br>
08:50 Australia's Changing Attitudes Towards Convict Ancestors<br>
09:38 <a href="https://femalefactory.org.au/event/cascades-female-factory-design-and-interpretation-centre-project/">History and Interpretation Center Design Competition</a><br>
11:12 <a href="https://www.femaleconvicts.org.au/">Female Convicts Research Centre</a><br>
12:15 The Reminders of Convict Labor in Hobart<br>
13:20 <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Join Club Archipelago</a><br>
14:00 Outro
</p>

<div id="script">
<h3>Transcript</h3>
Below is a transcript of Museum Archipelago episode 61. Museum Archipelago is produced for the ear and the only the audio of the episode is canonical. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, refer to the links above.</p>

<div class="wrap-collabsible">
  <input id="collapsible" class="toggle" type="checkbox">
  <label for="collapsible" class="lbl-toggle">View Transcript</label>
  <div class="collapsible-content">
    <div class="content-inner">
        <div>
        <p>[Intro]</p>

<p>Museums on the Australian island of Tasmania are a microcosm of museums all around the world. They struggle with properly interpreting their colonial past, the exclusion of First People from telling their stories in major museums, and having a large, privately owned art museum reshape a small town.</p>

<p>This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. For the next three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums.</p>

<p>Today, we begin with the Cascades Female Factory in the Tasmanian capital city of Hobart. It’s at the center of a shift in how Australians think of the role that convicts played in the colonization of the island. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: The male convict story is the story that everyone’s heard about and everyone wants to discover something about it. So I think it’s odd that the female story is equally as fascinating and as intricate as the male story, and yet until recently nobody’s really shown that much of an interest in it with the exception of family researchers or people who have a specific connection.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The site tells the story of European colonization of Van Diemen’s Land, the original European name for the island, from the female perspective.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: The whole penal transportation to Australia and subsequently Van Diemen’s Land started as a result of prisons in England. Post industrial revolution, and people turning to crime without all the industries that they were used to, machines taking their jobs, the prisons just started to literally overflow. So they needed a mechanism to get the people out of those spaces, stop the overcrowding, and the colonization of Australia was an attempt to get that population out of Britain, and essentially far far away. Over 170,000 men women and children were transported during the transportation phase, which started in New South Wales in the late 1700s and in Van Diemen’s Land in 1803.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The only museum in Tasmania that represents the female convict story is the Cascades Female Factory, where Dr. Jody Steele works as the heritage interpretation manager.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: Hi. My name is Jody Steele. I am the heritage interpretation manager for the Port Arthur Historic Site Management Authority, and we are lucky enough to be the portfolio managers of three world heritage sites with form part of the Austrian convict sites world heritage nomination. And the Female Factory fall under our portfolio. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Understanding why the site is called the Female Factory means understanding how the female convicts were seen as resources to the early colonists. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: Moving men out here as a labor force was something that seemed to make a lot of sense to the early Brits, to be able to pack up men and move them across the fall trees and to gather all the materials necessary for building, as in literally building a new colony. And then of course, if you want that population to grow, that can’t be done with men alone. So in the early 1800s, the first vessels with women on board came. Those women in the first days as convicts were usually assigned directly out to the early Hobart population. As your servants, housemaids, that sort of thing. As soon as anyone in that situation needed to be reprimanded for anything that they’ve done, they needed an establishment to do that. And so, as a result of that, the Cascades Female Factory was established. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Right here.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: Right here. So the female convicts were an amazing resource to that particular set of colonials. They could have female convicts coming in and care for their children. Witnesses educators and a lot of these women weren’t just petty criminals you know they were quite skilled at a number of trades. So you had two seamstresses and all of the trades that the men didn’t lend their hands to. You needed somebody to do laundry for the colony. And so having a prison filled with women who you wanted to put under hard labour to punish them. Laundry was one of the greatest ways to do that. You could well if the military presence could have their their uniforms laundered here and washed and ironed so it gave the colony a massive resource of trades that the men weren’t doing. Which is why it got its name as the Female Factory. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>The system operated under a strict series of punishments, that was nevertheless at the discretion of the guards. It was managed by a hierarchy of those incarcerated and was encouraged by attitudes towards what it meant to be a respectable women in the colonial society. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: A lot of the women who were assigned out were assigned out to people. Some of them to people that they knew. Some of them even to their husbands which is quite curious and I think in those instances there is an absurdity to the system where these women were assigned to people that they were genuinely in love with. They wanted to have families with. They got pregnant. Pregnancy while you were under sentence was considered a crime which meant that those women ultimately would be removed from their assignment brought back here to have child they would spend time with the child when it was a baby. They would be usually weaned quite quickly from their mother. And sometimes you know within within months that mother would then be back under sentence being punished separated from her child with the child being left in the care of other convict women in the nursery usually by sort of three years of age. The child would then be removed from this location the nursery here and removed into an orphan school. You may never see your child again. Now as somebody who wanted to have that baby with the person they were with. That must have been horrific. And then there is the flip side to that story when you could be assigned out to an individual master. He may have had absolutely no choice in falling pregnant and yet you were the one who gets punished for that occurring. You would come back in here and quite often that into that individual who you were assigned to originally would simply just get a new female convict servant and you know you’re left under punishment for something that was clearly not your fault it must have been horrific. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Steele says the biggest interpretation challenge is that is so easy for visitors to see the entire population of incarcerated people rather than individuals with vastly different, often contradictory, experiences.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: I think the biggest challenge when interpreting a site like this is people come with an understanding of a mass population. They think of a convict population. And unless they happen to be descended from an individual convict, they find it really hard to think about the individual within the system. And with over 7,000 women passing through these few yards alone, it tends to be the mass mentally that we try to break down here, which from my perspective is the most fun part of what I get to do, is to find the odd individual who has this amazing story, whether it be a tragic tale or a tale of resilience and strength. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Telling the stories of odd individuals is complicated by the fact that not many artifacts remain. The site itself is made up of three yards, surrounded by sandstone walls with only markings on the ground indicating the size of prison cells or nurseries.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: The challenge here, unlike a lot of our convict site museums is that the artifactual material associated with female convicts just isn’t there. Even our state museums, don’t have a lot of artifacts associated with female convicts. There isn’t the material history surrounding them that has been maintained for them men. </p>
  
  <p>Jody Steele: Probably one of the hardest things to deal with is the fact that most of the convict population didn’t have access to the time or the inclination to sit down and write a daily journal, and for most of them the literacy wasn’t particularly high usually when they arrived, but part of the convict system was actually educating a lot of these people, so a lot of them left with a much better education when they got in, but the time they could have started writing a journal, they were most likely off getting married, building businesses. So there’s a massive gap, and we really do rely heavily on what is the administrator’s view of these individuals, right down to the way they described them when they got off the ships. And then, we rely heavily on their descendants, who have all those stories and the oral histories of how these families built up from these individual women. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Dr. Steele talks about a massive cultural shift in Australian attitudes towards ancestors who may have been incarcerated. Because the family memory of the Female Factory goes back just two or three generations, it’s an opportunity for the museum to better interpret and educate by becoming a hub for these stories. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: For a very long time, having a convict ancestor was considered something to be ashamed of. And that has probably only shifted in the past 20 years of having a sense of pride of being descended from a convict when they became aware that even through they may have been criminals, some of them quite serious, some of them petty, that they were responsible for building the new colony of Australia. And that’s been a real shift of people being real proud of it now, and because genealogical research is now enormous, we’ve got access to things that aren’t that oppressive record. Business records, and images of shopfronts where these people built businesses. Massive massive change in attitude.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The Female Factory is in the middle of a design process to open a brand new History and Interpretation Centre on the site. The process began with an architectural design competition judged by an all-female panel.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: It’s really important when we’re working on this site that we recognise the contribution of women to society. I mean that is that is why this place is is recognised and part of that process when we we put the call out for the architectural design competition was that we really wanted women to contribute to this project we had over 50 original people who came in who put their hand up to get involved in the competition and we pulled together a team of amazing women mostly architects and the chair of our board Sharon Sullivan who oversaw the process and did all of the review of all of the nominations. Looking for things like female contribution of course looking at the Heritage impacts and how the building would would sit in in the landscape and what stories the building itself might tell the new building that they were hoping to put in this space will be clearly identifiable as a brand spanking new building that is that is part of our intention but it will also hopefully be aside from being a beautiful architectural structure. We’re hoping that it will recede and then the individual stories will come out as you’re inside the building. The building will be located over the cellblock location so I guess you know in a lineal form it will represent part of the historic landscape. But outside of that most of our storytelling will have to be in a very different format and we’ll have to get really creative. We work really closely with a group of people called that are called the female convict Research Center that’s started as as a bunch of women female researchers who I think they would forgive me for saying they’re totally obsessed with female convict history and they have built up a an amazing database of all of the female convict women. And so we have access to that database and it would I mean what an amazing thing to be able to know that you have a female convict ancestor to be able to come here to tap into that find out how long they were here exactly what space they were living in working in even being punished in to be able to go to that space you know and stand essentially in the footprints of your ancestor would be an amazing thing.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>You can see the winning design in the show notes for the episode. The architects call for a beautiful but solum building with plenty of play between the open spaces of the yards as they are today, and confined spaces of cells as they used to exist. Hobart is a city partially built with convict labor, but the reminders — the type of stone on a building for example — are subtle, and you have to know what you’re looking for. A structure like the one proposed removes the sublty, and makes it harder to forget. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: I would I would love you know the female convict history to be the first thing that people engage with and then to flow on into into the story of the men. I want people to walk away even if they don’t have a better understanding of convict female convict history. I want them to walk away asking questions and I think that’s what we all want when we build these places we want them to start questioning what they believe what they think what they knew before they walked in the door. I don’t necessarily I mean subliminally I’d love to educate everyone who walks through the door but quite often those people are on holidays and they probably don’t want me lecturing to them for an hour and a half about convict history. But I want them to walk away questioning you know what this place meant to Tasmania or you know what the women at least felt or went through to try and get some kind of gut reaction from them and to that experience that these people went through to create the place that we live in working today.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Do you like the podcasts I make? Club Archipelago is the best way to support me. It gives you access to a special bonus podcast that’s an even deeper dive into the museum landscape — kind of like the director’s commentary to the main show. There are longer versions of some of my interviews, commentary on the industry as a whole, and insider tours of various museums from past guests, all with the same humor and quality you’ve come to expect from Museum Archipelago. Join today for as little as $2 at Pateron.com/museumarchipelago, and get Museum Archipelago Logo stickers mailed straight to your door. That’s pateron.com/museumarchiepalgo. </p>

<p>[Outro]</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: I can admit, I like you am a total museum junke and wherever I go I drag anyone who I’m traveling with to every possible museum to every possible museum in every possible place to wherever I travel around the globe. I’m the person who reads the sign and then taps on it to figure out what it is made out of, and whether I like the font. You’re there, you’re there with me, you do it in every museum you walk into.</p>
</blockquote>
        
        
        </div><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Support Museum Archipelago</a></p>]]>
  </content:encoded>
  <itunes:summary>
    <![CDATA[<p>Penal transportation from England to Australia from the late 1700s to the mid-1800s was used to expand Britain&#39;s spheres of influence and to reduce overcrowding in British prisons. The male convict experience is well-known, but the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascades_Female_Factory" rel="nofollow">Cascades Female Factory</a> in Hobart is at the center of a shift in how Australians think of the role that female convicts played in the colonization of Tasmania. </p>

<p>Dr. Jody Steele, the heritage interpretation manager for the <a href="https://portarthur.org.au/about-us/" rel="nofollow">Port Arthur Historic Site Management Authority</a>, which includes the Female Factory, says that having a convict ancestor used to be considered shameful. But in the past 20 years, attitudes have shifted dramatically. Sites like <a href="https://femalefactory.org.au/" rel="nofollow">the Female Factory</a>, the <a href="https://www.femaleconvicts.org.au" rel="nofollow">Female Convicts Research Centre</a>, and a general interest in geological research have helped the public better understand how the forced labor of women built the economy of the island. </p>

<p>Today, the museum is on <a href="https://femalefactory.org.au/event/cascades-female-factory-design-and-interpretation-centre-project/" rel="nofollow">the cusp of a major renovation</a>. Dr Steele describes how the proposed design, chosen by an all-female panel, will present the female convict experience in Tasmania.</p>

<p><em>This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. For the next three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums. Subscribe to the podcast via <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/museum-archipelago/id1182755184" rel="nofollow">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.google.com/podcasts?feed=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubXVzZXVtYXJjaGlwZWxhZ28uY29tL3Jzcw==" rel="nofollow">Google Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://overcast.fm/itunes1182755184/museum-archipelago" rel="nofollow">Overcast</a>, or <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5ImpDQJqEypxGNslnImXZE" rel="nofollow">Spotify</a> to never miss an episode.</em></p>

<div id="club">
<h3><a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Club Archipelago 🏖️</a></h3>
<p>If you like episodes like this one, you’ll love Club Archipelago. <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago"><b>Join Club Archipelago today</b></a> to help me continue making podcasts about museums (and get some fun benefits)! </div>

<p>
<h3>Topics and Links</h3><p>
00:00 Intro<br>
00:15 <a href="https://www.museumarchipelago.com/tags/tasmania">This Month, Museum Archipelago is Taking You To Tasmania</a><br>
00:46 <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascades_Female_Factory">Cascades Female Factory</a><br>
01:00 The Male and Female Convict Experience<br>
02:26 Dr. Jody Steele<br>
02:48 Why It’s Called The Female Factory <br>
04:30 Being A “Respectable” Women In Colonial Society<br>
06:10 Interpreting the Site<br>
07:05 The Lack of Artifacts at the Site<br>
08:50 Australia's Changing Attitudes Towards Convict Ancestors<br>
09:38 <a href="https://femalefactory.org.au/event/cascades-female-factory-design-and-interpretation-centre-project/">History and Interpretation Center Design Competition</a><br>
11:12 <a href="https://www.femaleconvicts.org.au/">Female Convicts Research Centre</a><br>
12:15 The Reminders of Convict Labor in Hobart<br>
13:20 <a href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Join Club Archipelago</a><br>
14:00 Outro
</p>

<div id="script">
<h3>Transcript</h3>
Below is a transcript of Museum Archipelago episode 61. Museum Archipelago is produced for the ear and the only the audio of the episode is canonical. For more information on the people and ideas in the episode, refer to the links above.</p>

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        <p>[Intro]</p>

<p>Museums on the Australian island of Tasmania are a microcosm of museums all around the world. They struggle with properly interpreting their colonial past, the exclusion of First People from telling their stories in major museums, and having a large, privately owned art museum reshape a small town.</p>

<p>This month on Museum Archipelago, we’re taking you to Tasmania. For the next three episodes, we’re conducting a survey of museums on the island, and exploring how each of them relates to the wider landscape of museums.</p>

<p>Today, we begin with the Cascades Female Factory in the Tasmanian capital city of Hobart. It’s at the center of a shift in how Australians think of the role that convicts played in the colonization of the island. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: The male convict story is the story that everyone’s heard about and everyone wants to discover something about it. So I think it’s odd that the female story is equally as fascinating and as intricate as the male story, and yet until recently nobody’s really shown that much of an interest in it with the exception of family researchers or people who have a specific connection.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The site tells the story of European colonization of Van Diemen’s Land, the original European name for the island, from the female perspective.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: The whole penal transportation to Australia and subsequently Van Diemen’s Land started as a result of prisons in England. Post industrial revolution, and people turning to crime without all the industries that they were used to, machines taking their jobs, the prisons just started to literally overflow. So they needed a mechanism to get the people out of those spaces, stop the overcrowding, and the colonization of Australia was an attempt to get that population out of Britain, and essentially far far away. Over 170,000 men women and children were transported during the transportation phase, which started in New South Wales in the late 1700s and in Van Diemen’s Land in 1803.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The only museum in Tasmania that represents the female convict story is the Cascades Female Factory, where Dr. Jody Steele works as the heritage interpretation manager.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: Hi. My name is Jody Steele. I am the heritage interpretation manager for the Port Arthur Historic Site Management Authority, and we are lucky enough to be the portfolio managers of three world heritage sites with form part of the Austrian convict sites world heritage nomination. And the Female Factory fall under our portfolio. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Understanding why the site is called the Female Factory means understanding how the female convicts were seen as resources to the early colonists. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: Moving men out here as a labor force was something that seemed to make a lot of sense to the early Brits, to be able to pack up men and move them across the fall trees and to gather all the materials necessary for building, as in literally building a new colony. And then of course, if you want that population to grow, that can’t be done with men alone. So in the early 1800s, the first vessels with women on board came. Those women in the first days as convicts were usually assigned directly out to the early Hobart population. As your servants, housemaids, that sort of thing. As soon as anyone in that situation needed to be reprimanded for anything that they’ve done, they needed an establishment to do that. And so, as a result of that, the Cascades Female Factory was established. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Right here.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: Right here. So the female convicts were an amazing resource to that particular set of colonials. They could have female convicts coming in and care for their children. Witnesses educators and a lot of these women weren’t just petty criminals you know they were quite skilled at a number of trades. So you had two seamstresses and all of the trades that the men didn’t lend their hands to. You needed somebody to do laundry for the colony. And so having a prison filled with women who you wanted to put under hard labour to punish them. Laundry was one of the greatest ways to do that. You could well if the military presence could have their their uniforms laundered here and washed and ironed so it gave the colony a massive resource of trades that the men weren’t doing. Which is why it got its name as the Female Factory. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>The system operated under a strict series of punishments, that was nevertheless at the discretion of the guards. It was managed by a hierarchy of those incarcerated and was encouraged by attitudes towards what it meant to be a respectable women in the colonial society. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: A lot of the women who were assigned out were assigned out to people. Some of them to people that they knew. Some of them even to their husbands which is quite curious and I think in those instances there is an absurdity to the system where these women were assigned to people that they were genuinely in love with. They wanted to have families with. They got pregnant. Pregnancy while you were under sentence was considered a crime which meant that those women ultimately would be removed from their assignment brought back here to have child they would spend time with the child when it was a baby. They would be usually weaned quite quickly from their mother. And sometimes you know within within months that mother would then be back under sentence being punished separated from her child with the child being left in the care of other convict women in the nursery usually by sort of three years of age. The child would then be removed from this location the nursery here and removed into an orphan school. You may never see your child again. Now as somebody who wanted to have that baby with the person they were with. That must have been horrific. And then there is the flip side to that story when you could be assigned out to an individual master. He may have had absolutely no choice in falling pregnant and yet you were the one who gets punished for that occurring. You would come back in here and quite often that into that individual who you were assigned to originally would simply just get a new female convict servant and you know you’re left under punishment for something that was clearly not your fault it must have been horrific. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Steele says the biggest interpretation challenge is that is so easy for visitors to see the entire population of incarcerated people rather than individuals with vastly different, often contradictory, experiences.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: I think the biggest challenge when interpreting a site like this is people come with an understanding of a mass population. They think of a convict population. And unless they happen to be descended from an individual convict, they find it really hard to think about the individual within the system. And with over 7,000 women passing through these few yards alone, it tends to be the mass mentally that we try to break down here, which from my perspective is the most fun part of what I get to do, is to find the odd individual who has this amazing story, whether it be a tragic tale or a tale of resilience and strength. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Telling the stories of odd individuals is complicated by the fact that not many artifacts remain. The site itself is made up of three yards, surrounded by sandstone walls with only markings on the ground indicating the size of prison cells or nurseries.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: The challenge here, unlike a lot of our convict site museums is that the artifactual material associated with female convicts just isn’t there. Even our state museums, don’t have a lot of artifacts associated with female convicts. There isn’t the material history surrounding them that has been maintained for them men. </p>
  
  <p>Jody Steele: Probably one of the hardest things to deal with is the fact that most of the convict population didn’t have access to the time or the inclination to sit down and write a daily journal, and for most of them the literacy wasn’t particularly high usually when they arrived, but part of the convict system was actually educating a lot of these people, so a lot of them left with a much better education when they got in, but the time they could have started writing a journal, they were most likely off getting married, building businesses. So there’s a massive gap, and we really do rely heavily on what is the administrator’s view of these individuals, right down to the way they described them when they got off the ships. And then, we rely heavily on their descendants, who have all those stories and the oral histories of how these families built up from these individual women. </p>
</blockquote>

<p>Dr. Steele talks about a massive cultural shift in Australian attitudes towards ancestors who may have been incarcerated. Because the family memory of the Female Factory goes back just two or three generations, it’s an opportunity for the museum to better interpret and educate by becoming a hub for these stories. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: For a very long time, having a convict ancestor was considered something to be ashamed of. And that has probably only shifted in the past 20 years of having a sense of pride of being descended from a convict when they became aware that even through they may have been criminals, some of them quite serious, some of them petty, that they were responsible for building the new colony of Australia. And that’s been a real shift of people being real proud of it now, and because genealogical research is now enormous, we’ve got access to things that aren’t that oppressive record. Business records, and images of shopfronts where these people built businesses. Massive massive change in attitude.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The Female Factory is in the middle of a design process to open a brand new History and Interpretation Centre on the site. The process began with an architectural design competition judged by an all-female panel.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: It’s really important when we’re working on this site that we recognise the contribution of women to society. I mean that is that is why this place is is recognised and part of that process when we we put the call out for the architectural design competition was that we really wanted women to contribute to this project we had over 50 original people who came in who put their hand up to get involved in the competition and we pulled together a team of amazing women mostly architects and the chair of our board Sharon Sullivan who oversaw the process and did all of the review of all of the nominations. Looking for things like female contribution of course looking at the Heritage impacts and how the building would would sit in in the landscape and what stories the building itself might tell the new building that they were hoping to put in this space will be clearly identifiable as a brand spanking new building that is that is part of our intention but it will also hopefully be aside from being a beautiful architectural structure. We’re hoping that it will recede and then the individual stories will come out as you’re inside the building. The building will be located over the cellblock location so I guess you know in a lineal form it will represent part of the historic landscape. But outside of that most of our storytelling will have to be in a very different format and we’ll have to get really creative. We work really closely with a group of people called that are called the female convict Research Center that’s started as as a bunch of women female researchers who I think they would forgive me for saying they’re totally obsessed with female convict history and they have built up a an amazing database of all of the female convict women. And so we have access to that database and it would I mean what an amazing thing to be able to know that you have a female convict ancestor to be able to come here to tap into that find out how long they were here exactly what space they were living in working in even being punished in to be able to go to that space you know and stand essentially in the footprints of your ancestor would be an amazing thing.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>You can see the winning design in the show notes for the episode. The architects call for a beautiful but solum building with plenty of play between the open spaces of the yards as they are today, and confined spaces of cells as they used to exist. Hobart is a city partially built with convict labor, but the reminders — the type of stone on a building for example — are subtle, and you have to know what you’re looking for. A structure like the one proposed removes the sublty, and makes it harder to forget. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: I would I would love you know the female convict history to be the first thing that people engage with and then to flow on into into the story of the men. I want people to walk away even if they don’t have a better understanding of convict female convict history. I want them to walk away asking questions and I think that’s what we all want when we build these places we want them to start questioning what they believe what they think what they knew before they walked in the door. I don’t necessarily I mean subliminally I’d love to educate everyone who walks through the door but quite often those people are on holidays and they probably don’t want me lecturing to them for an hour and a half about convict history. But I want them to walk away questioning you know what this place meant to Tasmania or you know what the women at least felt or went through to try and get some kind of gut reaction from them and to that experience that these people went through to create the place that we live in working today.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Do you like the podcasts I make? Club Archipelago is the best way to support me. It gives you access to a special bonus podcast that’s an even deeper dive into the museum landscape — kind of like the director’s commentary to the main show. There are longer versions of some of my interviews, commentary on the industry as a whole, and insider tours of various museums from past guests, all with the same humor and quality you’ve come to expect from Museum Archipelago. Join today for as little as $2 at Pateron.com/museumarchipelago, and get Museum Archipelago Logo stickers mailed straight to your door. That’s pateron.com/museumarchiepalgo. </p>

<p>[Outro]</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Jody Steele: I can admit, I like you am a total museum junke and wherever I go I drag anyone who I’m traveling with to every possible museum to every possible museum in every possible place to wherever I travel around the globe. I’m the person who reads the sign and then taps on it to figure out what it is made out of, and whether I like the font. You’re there, you’re there with me, you do it in every museum you walk into.</p>
</blockquote>
        
        
        </div><p><a rel="payment" href="https://www.patreon.com/museumarchipelago">Support Museum Archipelago</a></p>]]>
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